032 - Dr Bryan Gregor - Veterinarian and host of The VetPodcast - part 1 of 2

welcome to episode30,two of paws claws and wit nosers.The veterinary seek to podcast,celebrating all creatures great and small,and the fantabulous professionals who look after the oil.I'm your show host Julie south.I've heard that the bonus episode last week or during the week on immigration was appreciated.If you're one of those who got in touch,thanking me for that episode.Thank you.If you've been listening to paws,claws and wet noses for the last six or so episodes you'll have heard me talk about the fan girl moment I had when Dr.Brian Gregor show host of the vet podcast called me out of the blue to talk podcasting.This is part one of my catch up,my interview,my check-in with Dr.Bryan,before I started paws,claws and Wet Noses I did a whole bunch of research.I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be treading on any toes with anyone here in God's zone,who is producing in the same space.As we are,I intended to hang out and the podcast world,I knew that Dr.Bryan had been hosting the vetpodcast for quite a while,but her audiences,although they were similar,we were both talking about different topics.Brian talked about.Being a vet,where is I'm all about hopefully working in the vet sector and Godzone Aotearoa New Zealand and helping with the HR,the marketing and business coaching,which is my background.So,and in another word we have complimentary audiences.And as I've said,a few times,the vetpodcast is where Paws Claws Wet noses dreams of being when it grows up today.Brian and I talk podcasting well today in next week we talk podcasting.So if you are thinking of starting your own podcast,then this show is definitely for you.Your podcasts can be about anything entrust.It really doesn't have to be veterinary based.One of the things that I'm regularly amazed at is at the personal talent,you know,the private talent that exists inside a vet clinic and someone's private lives,all the things that people do,some people do absolutely amazing things.They have really interesting hobbies and skills that have nothing whatsoever to do with being a veterinary professional and it stoves topics that I'm sure will make amazing.Yeah.Podcasts.And this show,Brian shares what life as a podcaster has been like for him.He talks about being offered early shares and Twitter way before the rest of us had even heard of Twitter and how he said no,because he didn't think such a crazy idea would take off.He talks about the really interesting veterinarians he's met and the different fields of expertise they work in as always I'll put links to what we talk about on the episode page for this podcast,which you can find it.Paws,claws,wet noses dot F M episode32.We recorded this using zoom.So there's a bit of zoom,like atmospheric stuff happening.I'm sure you hear it.Dr.Bryan Gregor is a mainlander Christchurch raised.He graduated from Massey in the class of1982.He worked originally in a small animal practice in Christchurch,but always wanted to be a dairy vet.So he jumped when the opportunity came his way in1983to move to Taranaki as a mixed practitioner.Then he was invited to open a small animal clinic a couple of years later,in terms of Ru for ordering new vets in1986,which he then became a partner of shortly after a retired late in2019.He produced his first podcast in2004.As I mentioned here today,I've been podcasting since about2010and my private life,which is a long time in the world of podcasting.But Bryan trumps that by quite a few years,he produced his first podcast in2004.Here's a little bit of useless information.Most podcasts.Don't go beyond episode one.People check it in at episode two today Bryan's interests include podcasting fishing.Cheesemaking gardening and traveling,not so much lately,but he's traveled a lot around New Zealand over the past year or so.

I'll put all links to the vetpodcast which.It's all about current animal health issues discussed by professionals from around the world on the notes page at paws claws with noses episode32.So you can listen yourself.An old vet told my father when he was a student in Glasgow.He said,if you want to be a success in veterinary practice,Just keep the bubbles open and just the rest of God,nutrition is not an opinion.It's a science.They called me that weird herbal needle.That,and I,I just remember thinking,well,I'm still going to do it cause I know it works.And I've got the research to back it.Yeah.From reminiscences of the real James Harriet son to Pete,you attrition.To acupuncture,the big podcast discusses current animal health issues from around the world on veterinarian,Brian greeter from New Zealand,just search for the vet podcast,wherever you get your podcasts from

paws,claws and wet noses is sponsored by vet staff.If you've never heard of vet staff,it's New Zealand,only full service.Recruitment agency,100%dedicated to the veterinary sector and Fitz staff has been around since2015and works nationwide from Katerina to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis fit staff.Also helps overseas,qualified veterinarians find work and art hero and New Zealand fit staff.co dot indeed.Now let's meet Dr.Brian Gregor.Righty podcasts.You have been podcasting for a long time,which to me means that you are an early adopter.Has,have you always been an early adopter,even in your PR you know,not even in,but in your professional career.As a veterinarian where you're an early adopter.

Yeah.I'm sure I was,you know,was with irony bits,which was my old practice here in tomorrow.We were one of the first practices that become computerized.We used an old system called in Australia developed.I think we want IDEXX machine number seven in New Zealand,things like email newsletters and those sorts of things.So,and,and even.Techniques that we were using were feeling progressive.I sort of think back and crunch sometimes now.Yeah.Some of the things that we did try,but definitely always,always been an early adept or a few,like probably in my personal life.I've matched the same.I'm a gadget person,much to my wife's chagrin.I'm always buying the appliances,engage it.So,yeah,I think why did you choose the medium of podcasting?It's sort of jumped on me.I mean,you're saying I've been doing it for a long time.I once.We started to organize this discussion of,oh gosh,I should try to make them find it when I'm done with this podcast,I got back to a bit2004is the earliest one that I can actually find.But when I listened to it and it was rough,but when I listened to it,it was mentioned that previous podcasts,and I think I was up to something I keep aside teen means.So.I don't know.Um,the podcasting came about in a little bit of a weird way,I suppose.Um,I was watching,I think the program was called click on the BBC and I'd never,never really heard of the podcast for,but they started talking about podcasts.Then they were pushing a company called Odo,which.It's probably a weird story.We can go into that later,but they were pushing out a company called Odo and it looked simple to record a podcast.Something I can probably use that for the practice.So the first.Podcasts.Definitely.There was a thing called animals.Get sick too.Um,basically the same thing.I remember setting with my very rough guitar playing,making an,making an intro music track for us.And,um,it was very,very amateurish.Not that I'm saying that my podcasts particularly professional now,but,um,you know,it was very,very amatriciana and it sort of started from there and it sort of bounced through a few different.People who are holding that,holding that the traits,even through differences,see that,see that providers and it's just really grown.Yeah.Hey,has the format changed?It's chopped and changed a few times.I went through a little bit of a hiatus up until about a year and a half ago for two or three years,because life just got in the way to be truthful.The original format was disgusting.Veterinary matters basically for my clients for primary needs,big,small animal clients that went from there.Odd quite often put an anecdote at the end of it.I mean,it's a great anecdote.So I'm throwing an anecdote and at the end of it,that went from there as far as the format and it morphed into the fit podcast and it became more of a.I don't know,what's the term used it with a number of smaller segments.So I changed it from being for the clients of to move for animal owners and fig teaks,eight nurses,physios in vets.They haven't listened to.And I had a grip.I used to call them my foreign correspondence.I had a group of vets and England's and Bob like Canada.I can't remember what else?All Australia.And we used to talk about topical topical things.I mean,there's been some interesting conversations coming out of it.Probably the most interesting,I think was I'll go ahead and contact with a guy called Jim white,which might run some bales.So some people Jim White's father was Applewhite and Applewhite was James Harriet.It was a pseudonym and it was the50th anniversary or something of something to do with James Harriet.So ended up having a really,really good discussion with Gemma who was Jen Harriet's real life son who has a V as well.The next generation up for me is things tend to go with this light planes.We hit internet issues seemed,I sort of got three quarters of an interview done,but that's probably the most listened to too.Podcasts that I've done.There's been a few others met too,I suppose,uh,had an interesting conversation with an English feat that they are passport fraud,peak passport fraud,which it's a fight.It's been a bit news who was working out of somewhere in one of the arriving countries is a big news and one of these compounds and she was discussing the problems that people had when they are buying pizza.So quarters like the market and.There's all sorts of shenanigans goes on and these animals are brought over from Poland and I've got garden as one of the cities.So yeah.I ran.There is a magazine for a while.I slipped into,out of laziness,probably a little bit for a while.Um,just with a few,few anecdotes,but now I'm gone to more of a,just a straight one-on-one interview.I mean,some of the previous ones that I've done.Yeah.Last last one.I think it was the last one was two fish feet who knows,who knows that there are bits that specialize in fish,fishery,acupuncturists,hype,contract therapists,zoo bits,rain,a couple of them with this.And how COVID is affected them.So that's sort of the format that I'm dealing with NASA at my,with change,but it's moment you,you mentioned James Harriet,and I remember watching the programs or creatures.Great.And small Paws Claws Wet noses is.Who is close with noses.His tagline is celebrating all creatures great in smaller on the fantabulous professionals who look after them all.And it's because of the James Harriet association that I use that tagline.Yeah.I mean,I have to admit that one of the reasons that I became a vape was probably,I was in trance with James Harriet's box and,you know,back in my early days,cause I'm sort of80,82graduate or something.I mean,I've been doing this guy for a long time.We didn't have a lot of.The great drugs that we've gotten there.And a lot of the stories that he was talking about Danny generations,who prior to me,you know,his son was practicing when I was practicing.So it's a lot of it actually rang true with the things that he was doing,especially.My clearest Erie practice that I worked in was,was in coastal and deal were,you know,who'd step we're,milking30or40cares.And then I walked through a cashier and a lot of the stuff that he was dealing with was the kind of stuff that I was still dealing with.So it's come full circle.Do you think he's James Harriet,do you think he's well known down under here?Oh,he probably is.I mean,there's been a new James Harriet series that company we're at popped up on Netflix or somewhere,which has been redone.It's got really,really good reviews.So I'm sure that the new generation of got to,got to see that.I don't think that it's as common as it was,as well-known,as it was say,20years,30years ago,but yeah,most people.Who have got any affinity with animals then somewhere,at least food of James here.And what cha what technological Willem,what technological changes have you noticed over the years that you've been podcasting?Probably the one that's that's the most is basically what we're doing now.We know,we know it was recording.Podcast previously I would be using Skype and there was this little,little clip on program called picky mail pretty may or something.And it was chunky and everything can through a single channels.We're using zoom to record this.Uh,I normally use a program called squat cast,not a program.So it's an online and much the same as zoom.And I mean,it's really good.You can do video stuff on,it brings you podcasts and a Kappa channel so that you can eat at them.If one's a bit shonky you can amplify or.Took a treasury rate on that.So the actual recording is a lot easier than it used to be.The recording quality is better.Hold on.I'm actually struggling Dunham office and there's a lot of glass and climb walls.So I'm getting a little bit of reverb at the moment,but the recording quality is better.I mean,we are both using specialist,podcast microphones,which makes things a lot easier.There are a lot of.Programs around for editing podcasts.And they probably,the thing that's really changed is the number of people who listen to podcasts.I think I read it last week or the week before it was in the UK,25%of the population listened to a podcast at least once a week.Now it's big business back in the day.I was the top victory podcast on my chains.I'll certainly dribble down the ranks for a number of reasons.I just like to interrupt you listeners.That is huge.Every podcast dreams of being number one with apple.Yeah,it lasted for a while.I mean,the story that goes with that,and I actually alluded to it,alluded to it earlier.I was originally with,I provide a cool audio.Now things were going great.The podcasts were being picked up by iTunes and they were on.The of matrix,which is the salt that I use,which has got RSS feeds going around to all the sites.I've got an email from REI signed.We are experimenting with a new kind of format.We're going to stop doing podcasts.We have got this new.Messaging system,what people I need to communicate with each other in64liters,we think it's going to be a big thing.And in my mind,I'm pretty sure there was a thing.If you want,if you want to,if you want to contribute place,come join us.I had an acronym for whatnot,extra tequila,certainly of takeoff.At tuned out to be twist that.Yeah.I'm sort of like the drummer of these drum or the Roman style,the Beatles,I think,but to carry on from that,there's a,is a thing called at three oh one redirection,which,you know,a lot of people would've got four oh one,then pop up when the website's not available.A three oh one redirection is the redirection net.We'll pick up the old feed and being an in somewhere outside.So it's supposed to be seamless that hadn't been invented back in the day.So I was unable to get my old feeds directly back into,into iTunes at the level it was at.And I mean,it's been number one,the gate's been number one.So once you fall down the ranks,it's very,very hard to push it back up again.So I sort of.Crushed and doing their little bit.I hit the change providers a couple of times,so I can see now there's a number of them around aims.Now that on your talk,I record a year and a bit ago,I'm spending quite a bit more time doing these podcasts.So we're actually starting to build up quite a bit of traction again,which is great.I would have cried.I think if I had lost the history that you've lost.It is,but it's still,yeah.And like you say,you know,it's just so hard to get back up there again.I think at the moment,When you hit to look at the arch in stats,I mean,that sort of Def that do the math for different geographic areas.And,you know,oh,I said some ski places that not five or six or seven,so I'm starting,starting to get back up again.You know,the psych stuff,income setting,some of her and to be at40or50or something at the moment,which is okay,because it's a very,very cluttered.He hates spice in there because it's so easy to do a podcast,70people that day.

Have,have you ever wanted to like extended an invitation to do meet with a vet for a podcast and they say,yeah,I'd love to do that.What's a podcast.

No,no,I haven't.I haven't actually,but,um,you know,I get a lot of,you know,what are you doing now?I'm doing podcasts,but really,you know,these corporate disbelief that they've been doing it for.Yeah.Yeah.And my private life I've been podcasting since2000in nine,which I thought was a long time,but you know,you're2004or earlier.

Why you idiot in that?My mum,when I,a little while ago,I told her that my podcast had got to a thousand.Downloads.We've just crossed the thousand three shot show.That's really exciting.What's a,what's a podcast.Yeah.You must've meet all sorts of interesting people.

Yeah.That's,that's one of the interesting things that I get out on something professionally it's it's correct,because.The first thing is that you don't want to go to talk to somebody and look like an absolute idiot at be at the field.So,I mean,one of the podcasts that I've got coming up and HDU introduced me to him as a,as a guy.And that's a Spanish guy who is BVS of all things.I mean,who knew there was such a thing as a baby.I know nothing about beekeeping and nothing about what about the diseases.So.My next job probably been not finished with you here is to start studying paint.You know,it's essentially really,really good for learning areas,which I don't know,not a heck of a lot of,yeah.I mean the first step was,it was a prime example.I know very little,except on the very king fishermen,but I'm not very,very level of it out.Social media sentiment and what to do.So that was interesting.But one of the things that are really is that I've got quite a group of vets that I touch base with quite frequently.So if people do listen to the podcast and you know,this is where we're getting the track and game,that feed podcast,the one word,if you just search for that feed podcast,you find me I've got these gone or guys and girls that I actually interviewed.Relatively frequently,you know,these are a guy he's almost become a,a nice,I suppose,the Lou and even Mason,who is my sort of vented,uh,vision in Canada,who I remember having an interview with him not long after marijuana became legal in Canada,pooling about the effect that that's having on the work that they were doing.So,yeah,it's,it's really interesting talking to some really,really interesting people.What benefits did you see?In your clinic,if any,I expect that you would have by being a broadcaster.Well,I'll be truthful.It wasn't huge.Again,if you look at the statistics of where the dam are coming from,and even,even back in the day,80%plus,uh,overseas.So if you are running.Uh,practice in New Zealand.There's not much benefit in somebody in Australia or Canada or the UK or the United Arab Emirates,actually listening to the podcasts so easily the word there were advantages.I did push them in the,in the.Podcast has sorry,in the company newsletters as well.So because the newsletters were digital,that was easy enough to put a link in there.So I guess people were listening and there was back in the day where I was using them for education and a lot of ways.I mean,one of the things that I would do would be if I.Hey,somebody come in.For example,with the Cape with diabetes,I would give them the discussion,but I've also done a diabetes podcast with one of the,the company guys that guys that make Ken insulin,actually I would put them on to onto their paint issue.One thing that I do remember now from their previous question is have you changed the format of the podcast?I did have the Nate's video podcasts for a level,but they,it was just.Quite complicated to,you know,you can,you can knock up a podcast as you know,relatively quickly,but when you've got to start putting in videos and pictures and nice sort of things,it's a whole new ball game.It does take quite a lot.it's harder to edit the sound quality.You know,some of the programs I use,it's not quite as good for changing the sand quality.Is that due to that on using.But it was quite handy to be able to tell clients to go and have a listen to this.I mean,it was some of them that were put up in a valley grass valley grass podcast that I did.And I mean,by they not too long after that,we hade a few people come and say,oh,listen to podcasts,paint.My dog's got the same between it's tough.I think it might be a podcast that,sorry,it might be a bounty dress.So there,there certainly are advantages,but that sort of podcast,you hit the targets,your clients and decide why are you actually doing it?

Yeah.It with Paws Claws Wet Noses.It's the majority of our listeners buy.I think that the split is about75%.Domestic New Zealand.And then the balance is made up from another29also countries with Australia being number two in the ranks that I'm I'm also because this podcast is specifically for Kiwi VIPs and fits,wanting to work in New Zealand.

I'm very deliberate and how I market it as well.Yeah.And I th I think that's the point is that,you know,if people do decide that they want to do a podcast,they have to decide who detaches,what number one is,why are you doing it?It might be something as simple as may where on you're doing enjoy doing them,but who is going to listen to it because it's not only geographically where you're going to see it,but it's also what level you're going to send it to.I never sit here to be a podcast for.Veterinarians,you know,a lot of it's listen,but I did,you know,it was genuine information,you know,it was a magazine type program where,you know,people,all I remember air really intro was,you know,something along the lines of,you know,It's the type of dog for a walk or cuddle a cat and listen to the podcast,you know,because I am in it,those sort of people,there are a few niche level markets that I seem to have gotten to.And one of them is the animal physio acupuncture,a hydrotherapist group,these quite a number of them,uh,of those people who are,who have subscribers and the other one,which has popped up because I did a podcast.Six months of solid go on and an end of life practice in the states suddenly I'll have actually got a group of,into the live practices.So yeah,things evolve through through time,but you know,if people are looking at doing podcasts,I think there's questions are who,who do you want to listen to it?Like we're out a little,shall I put it too?

I am not sure about you,but when I'm recording and when I'm doing a solo podcast,as opposed to an interview like this,I have a vet in my mind and I am speaking specifically for them.There's like the show is for you rather than a big general all of New Zealand veterinarians.I mean,I

do the same sort of thing,except I'm not just one person on,you know,in my mind,I'm actually standing in front of an audience thing,just rambling all the time.I'm very succinct.

You are very succinct and specific with your podcast.

Yeah.What's the technological changes from,from a production who speak to have,have you found that your,your skills I getting more refined or that the,the software is getting.Easier for nonspecialists.Do you use it probably is the software that I use for doing the eaters and things is just which is a multi-track recorder.It's got a heap of a fix in the back of it that you can use.I mean,when I say a fix,you know,filters and all those sorts of things,so this is probably the gay community coming out a wee bit,but I quite like watching YouTube videos on.The best way to eat it out.I mean,like I said before,I've got a little bit of a problem in the room.I'm recording at the moment because you know,I'm going to glass title,which has got a public case on it.So it's not really bragging too much,but you know,these concrete floors and,you know,things,things rumble away.But so it's actually quite,it's been quite a challenge to get the filters in place to get that rumble out.Cause I don't actually want to hit that.Soundproof the road and you know,yeah,it's expensive and I've got nice views out the windows and yeah.So there's things like that that are great.The microphone sees days a lot better.They mean even simple things like marketing them,a marketing,the podcasts.I use a.Program called Canva,which is,I think that's not a sacred,a lot of people using it,but I use that to make the Instagram,Facebook,LinkedIn,and Twitter.Aids if you like for it.So,I mean,if people do want to chase in the out there,you know,if I searched that podcast on any of those social media things,I can find this as well,but life is a lot easier than it used to be for,for doing those sort of things.Wherever in the country,we've got pretty slow internet here,but even some of us,a heck of a lot faster than it used to be.And it doesn't take too long to upload a podcast app on the servers.So,you know,The the more we're going,the easier things get and on at the stage.And I'm sure you are the same where.You know,I've actually got templates of almost everything that I do.So it doesn't take too long,even though,you know,can I interview you for my podcast?I've got a template for just change the nines and then bang it out.Same thing.There's templates for the squad cast recording in the,well,I suppose these days we hit a,the legal leads that goes with it.So the release.Forms to sign,you know,that will computerized now.So,so you do go down the,the podcast released guests release.Yeah,I've been doing it for a long time and I have got a little bit slack where they're all on and off,but,you know,it's that some of the horror stories of people who've done a podcast and,you know,next thing there's legal action taken against them because they have gone and posted it somewhere else.And that person who was interviewed didn't realize it was going to get posted somewhere else.So,you know,there are.There are times when you do require something in the back,but what has it on property?

I have a release as well.And a few months ago I was in discussion with a major well international corporate.As for being a guest in,they were prepared to sign the release,but that they put a time limit on for12months because they were worried that the information that we were going to be talking about would change.And in12months it would no longer be suitable.And I said,well,that's,you know,that's fine.But,and then they wanted the podcast down.Removed at that point,as I,sorry,I,I need my podcast to be there.

Yeah.Yeah.I mean,I think my oldest podcast out of the mine is2014,but I still got the recordings of.A lot of the really old ones,you know,I haven't listened to them now and that the content of them is quite old fashioned as well.So it's not the kind of thing that you would put up.And that is one thing that I do is I do tend to print the bottom off the,off the list because I think these I've probably recorded a hundred sites and I think there's40app or something at the moment.45or something,something like that,which is that someone wants to punch them.God help them,but at some of them wants to punch them.Not that these more than more than enough content there for people who listened to it.Where do you find your,most of your listeners listen through which channel,which platform.They come from all over.Most of them,um,I'm struggling to get,um,I mean the,the big players of mine,the Spotify,Google podcasts,and.April origins.There's the other biggest ones in the statute was that I love I have,I have a radio,but most of them are actually coming through all of the wreck take buyers that are around,you know,quite a few of the players.He candidate actually have a look and see how many people are subscribing to them.But.One of the metrics that comes out of the department,excite is the number,the number of subscribers that you've got,which doesn't mean that they've listened to us all.That means that subscribed to,and certainly that no way tallies with what the Spotify stats and I,that get the podcast up in that,call them there.What if it was the Google one?So I think the bulk of my people are still downloading and through the normal players,There are a reasonable number of people who I think who,because the states are split two ways downloads in place.So it's,three-quarter download one core play probably is the split that I'm getting.So the people who are playing had got into our player somewhere,so I do tend to beat the buyer,the PA,PA the planner for the podcast and quite a lot of places.So,you know,I think a lot of people are actually listening to the players as well.W what's your,your release?She,Joe.Not as good as it should.It's probably one of the things that people are looking at doing at podcast regularity is really,really,really important when I started,I was doing it fortnightly,but I was also had a young family and was running a busy practice and skiing and just doing.Life.So that got a little bit hard at the moment.I'm regular ish.Isn't every two or three weeks on point running out.I should have get more organized and do do it every couple of weeks.But at the moment I've just got too many other.Lawns in the fall for Tom.It isn't as easy as that night.It takes up a lot of time.I understand.Yeah.Yeah.Do you have a newsletter subscription?Do you know?No.I've been thinking about doing it again.It's just something else that needs to be done.It would be easy enough to do.I ran the news,the newsletter subscription.You know,it's basically people ID stuff as well.It's all nice and easy.So I should,I should get onto that list.Chimp is free up to,as it recording this up to2000subscribers,if you have more than two set,thousands of Grovers or you send out more than10,000editions,more than10,000emails.And a30day period,they,there is a small charge.

Thank you for listening through to the end.Remember to click follow.Wherever you listen to your podcasts that way you'll never miss out on an episode of any of your fans.Favorite shows it doesn't cost anything to click the follow button tune in again next week for part two,with Dr.Bryan Gregor of the vetpodcast where we go into a bit more depth.About podcasting beyond next week.We've got Dr.Fiona Esamof companion animals,New Zealand talking microchip myth-busting in cat management,improving the welfare of cats,humans,and the environment.And also about the advances that have been made in facial recognition in animals.We've got Janet Natta of smart money advice.A woman who's in her happy place when she's helping Kiwis,reduce their debt and improve their wealth.And if you remember last year lockdown,licensed immigration consultant,Katy Armstrong,and I co-hosted a webinar on what was happening then with border control and immigration,we are planning another catch-up.So stay tuned for that as well.Wherever you're listening to this.At the gym on your drive to,or from work,or if you're like me doing the housework or doing the ironing,then thank you.I'd really love to hear what you like or dislike about paws claws in wet noses.So please get in touch and give me some feedback.Because I'd love to hear it from you.paws,claws,and wet noses as sponsored by vet staff.If you've never heard of it,staff it's new,Zealand's only full service recruitment agency.100%dedicated to the veterinary sector fit staff has been around since2015and works nationwide from Cape Reinga to the bluff.And everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis VetStaff.Also helps overseas,qualified veterinarians find work in Aotearoa New ZealandVetStaff.co.nz.