Beyond Traditional Vet Nursing: Exploring Equine Therapy Research with Kristina Naden, RVN BVN

Julie South [00:00:06]:
What if I told you that your veterinary nursing qualification could lead you to conducting groundbreaking research? A guest today started her veterinary nursing career just like many of you. Welcome to Veterinary Voices. This is episode 210210 and I'm your show host, Julie South. With listeners tuning in from over 1400 cities worldwide, veterinary Voices celebrates all that's great about working in New Zealand's veterinary industry. I'd love to hear where you're listening from right now, so please feel free to share your location with me at VeterinaryVoices NZ. It's also at VeterinaryVoices NZ where you can find back copies as well. Veterinary Voices is brought to you by vetstaff, New Zealand's only recruitment agency specialising and committed to helping veterinary professionals find jobs that they're excited about going to on Monday mornings in Kiwi vet clinics. That's Vetstaff Co nz.

Julie South [00:01:22]:
Today we we're welcoming back a familiar voice, Christina Needin, senior lecturer in veterinary nursing at Otago Polytech and one of our most popular returning guests, joining us for her third appearance on the show. If you've listened to any of Christina's previous episodes and I'll put links to those in the show notes for you to check out. Wherever you're listening now, if you haven't, you'll know how passionate Christina is about expanding the boundaries of veterinary nursing. Today she's sharing her latest research into therapeutic horse riding, which perfectly shows how vet nurses can evolve their careers into specialised research and education. Whether you're a vet nurse considering your next career move, or you're fascinated by the possibilities of research, stay tuned because you won't want to miss what Christina's talking about. We join the conversation here where Christina starts talking about the practical aspect of her current research.

Kristina Naden [00:02:33]:
That's the experiment part, is to then go and take some measurements. So heart rate variability, eye temperature in horses is apparently as a sign of stress, which I never learned until I started doing this, looking at their gait, you know, an ethogram about what their bodies are doing, so their air position, if their tails are swishing, if their, their nostrils are tense, that sort of thing, and then seeing if there are those signs, then can we implement any changes to reduce or mitigate any of those signs that could be behavioural stress?

Julie South [00:03:03]:
Is it only horses that are ridden? The reason I'm asking that question, I have a friend who has a therapy dog and I say, like, the dog is their family pet, but he's enrolled it in a therapy school and now Hugo goes into school libraries with children and My friend was telling me the other day that part of a therapy animal get together, there was a miniature horse that was a therapy horse in either rest homes or hospitals, I can't remember. Or it might have been a rest home hospital. So is it just for horses that your research, is it just for horses that have a saddle on their back or is it a more generic therapy horse?

Kristina Naden [00:04:02]:
No, it's just focused on therapeutic riding, which is. Yeah, where they're saddled or sometimes they just use a sheepskin pad, depending on what the rider is, is, you know, finds more comfortable. So RDA only their main thing is therapeutic riding. So literally, you know, the rider on the horse. So, yeah, that's. And that's the focus of my study. So some of the RDA groups do unmounted work with their riders. Some of them have trained their horses to pull a little cart and people will ride in the cart because some of the riders find it, you know, sitting astride on a horse is really difficult for their hips.

Kristina Naden [00:04:40]:
If they've got issues with their pelvis, that's quite, quite hard. That can be really hard for them and really uncomfortable. So some of the RDA groups have adapted and sort of got these horses that can pull a cart and then the rider or the child gets to still have the interaction with the horse and do some of the activity. So they do activities to develop their motor skills, their verbal skills, things like that. But yeah, the RDA really does just focus on therapeutic riding. That's kind of their thing. So there's a lot of other places that do all sorts of interactions where they, you know, it might just be grooming the horse or interacting with them in some other way. But I'm sort of focusing on that one part, which is just a little subset really of animal assisted therapy.

Julie South [00:05:21]:
We have a friend who. Or friends, a couple, they adopted a child from overseas who is Fetal Alcohol Poison Syndrome syndrome, whatever that is. Yeah, she went through an RDA program. It made a difference for her.

Kristina Naden [00:05:43]:
Yeah, it really does. Like, they've got some. Some of the stories you sort of. I've heard being part. Being involved with them are pretty neat. And these. I just went to a conference, I presented some of my research at a conference in Budapest, which was pretty, it was pretty cool actually, to get to go over there and speak in front of a bunch of, you know, therapists. Therapists and a lot of practitioners.

Kristina Naden [00:06:04]:
So speech and language therapists. And I was thinking speech and language got to do with horses, but it's amazing what they do to help the person, you know, develop their speech, their verbal skills using a horse. And I'm sitting there thinking that's. That was a new thing for me. Some of the stories you hear from the physiotherapists who are there about how the rider's own gait and mobility has improved and their strength, just developing that core strength, and in a really gentle way, because the horses are mostly walking, so it's not like they're galloping off around paddocks and things. But the gait, the movement of a horse, and the way the horse's back and pelvis moves is. There's a lot of research to show how beneficial it is to a rider's core, their abs and things, and their pelvis. And I know for me, if I haven't, I just hadn't ridden for, gosh, about six weeks or something, and I rode for the first time this morning actually in ages, and it was my hips I could feel.

Kristina Naden [00:07:04]:
I was starting to get really grumpy. And because I sit a lot for work, you know, and. And my hip flexors start to get tight, and being on a horse, I'm like, oh, I know now, you know, even though I don't, you know, have any physical disabilities, it actually really helps with my posture and my strength and my comfort when I'm sitting at, you know, my seat, looking at my computer all the time. Yeah, it does make a real difference. It's. It's quite a cool therapy.

Julie South [00:07:27]:
Yeah, it's pretty hard to slouch when you're sitting in a saddle.

Kristina Naden [00:07:32]:
Yeah, you can do it. I've done it. I've seen photos of myself doing it. But, yeah, you have to be. It's an interesting sport as well, because the horse picks up so much on our mental state and what we're doing. And I think the horses all pick up on it, but some respond more loudly than others.

Julie South [00:07:59]:
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Kristina Naden [00:09:18]:
You know, I've got one that my niece has adhd, and she's ridden one of my horses a few times. And I remember her riding him, and she was just walking around an arena and she was, she's doing a great job. She's a great, you know, she's just natural on a horse, which I'm a little bit jealous of, but that's okay. And then she. I could see her attention just suddenly went off him, and so he just basically walked out of the arena. And she went, why did he do that? And I said, well, what were you doing? I was just sitting here. What were you thinking about, though? And she went, oh, yeah. And I said, I told you, if you.

Kristina Naden [00:09:52]:
Your attention changes focus, you have to gently be not focused on him, like staring hard at his ears, but you just have to be mindful, I think is the big thing, and be aware of what your thoughts are doing. And I know for me, if I've got a million things going on on my head and I've had a really stressful day, and sometimes you might think, oh, just go and ride my horse. It'll be good stress relief. But that's really tough on them. I think they. They all pick it up. But as I said, you know, some of them respond more than others. So this horse I was talking about, he.

Kristina Naden [00:10:24]:
When I first got him, you know, he would just, If I did, if I. If he, if he thought what I'd done was rude or unnecessary, he would, you know, throw in a little buck for me and be like, you know, it was like, come on, sort yourself out. What are you doing? But it's. It's really good to treat. Teach yourself to just think of one thing, which is really hard. Sometimes we get so busy doing, you know, I've got 10 things to do at once, and I've got to do this and then I'll do that. And I'm a shocker at it. You know, I'll be typing an email and thinking of something else, and my husband laughs at me because I can be typing and I'll have a conversation with him while I'm typing an email.

Kristina Naden [00:10:55]:
And he's like, how do you do that? I'm like, it's probably not very good, but then I know when I'm on my horses, I just have to be. This is what I'm doing. This is my time to just let myself only think of one thing which is kind of nice vet staff, but hard.

Julie South [00:11:09]:
Yeah, vet staff's Tanya is. She's got two horses, one of which is a thoroughbred. And Tanya says that when she's having a bad day, because we all have bad days at work or thing, you know, sometimes things just don't go the way we want them to go. Before she goes and feeds out, she has to check herself and she has to get in the right frame of mind and she has to spend the time between walking out. This is me paraphrasing Tanya. The time from walking out of her back door to Flynn's paddock. She's got to get in the right, right space for him because he will pick up on it.

Kristina Naden [00:11:57]:
Yeah, I've got. Yes, I've got a thoroughbred and a thoroughbred quarter horse cross and the. Hey, the thoroughbred quarter horse crosses. He's an interesting. It's funny, I would have always described him as the least sensitive, but the more I've got to know him, I'm like you, actually more sensitive maybe than the thoroughbred. And we had his selenium got really low a couple of years ago. And that causes. The selenium removes waste products that the muscles create.

Kristina Naden [00:12:21]:
You know, when muscles work, they create a waste product. So those waste products bind to selenium and then they get excreted from the body. So if you don't have enough selenium, then those waste products stay in the body and they get. They get what's called white muscle disease or they can get that. So they. I sort of think of it like, you know, you, muscle cramping and stuff, so they get sore. So he got really low in selenium and he started humping and bucking when I would hop on him. And I was thinking, oh, it's really not like you.

Kristina Naden [00:12:49]:
So I did some bloods and yeah, her selenium was low. And that. That's fine. That's a really easy fix. You just supplement them orally with liquid selenium. Works really well. But I had this mental thing in my head after that of like when I got on him, oh, he's gonna, he's gonna buck. And I've had a couple of bad falls like from just as I've got on or mid when I've been getting on a horse and they've, they've dumped me on the ground.

Kristina Naden [00:13:12]:
And I had to work quite hard to actually not, you know, if I, if I parked him next to the mounting block and I'd be standing there and if I was, my head was going a million miles an hour thinking, oh, my God, he's going to do this. What if he does this? What if he does it? And even though I was just standing there, not actually moving, he would get really upset and he would go from standing quietly to being a real fidget. It was like, you know, he was like, you know, mind reading essentially. But it was that energy, I suppose, that I was putting off. And he's probably standing thinking, what are you doing? Like, why are you not just getting on me? You've parked me next to the mounting block, you're standing there not doing anything, just, you know, tense and fidgety. Yeah. So he. Then, of course, he would just, he would get fidgety and then we'd just.

Kristina Naden [00:13:56]:
I would feed off each other because I'd be like, oh, look, see, Self fulfilling prophecy. He's been a clown. And he was being a clown because I was being a clown, basically. But yeah, you do have to just. And I remember a friend, I was at a friend's place and I said, can you just stand here just in case? And I said, I'm just going to walk up and get straight on him. And she's like, yeah, why haven't you been doing that? And so I did that and he was, he just went, oh, yeah, okay, thank you. Could almost hear him go, oh, my God. Thank goodness.

Kristina Naden [00:14:23]:
She sorted herself out, like, what was going on. I sort of think they're a mirror, really of us, what's going on with us. And you have to be careful what you put out there because it'll come right back at you.

Julie South [00:14:34]:
I think in New Zealand we are. I'm not a horse person. I have ridden, I have had lessons. I have, I've.

Kristina Naden [00:14:43]:
So you are a horse person kind of really.

Julie South [00:14:45]:
Well, I've, I've jumped.

Kristina Naden [00:14:48]:
Oh, wow.

Julie South [00:14:49]:
And a few times have gone a separate way to the horse. I like horses from a distance. My sister is very much into horses. My niece is very much into horses. I think here in New Zealand we are extremely blessed in that most of the time, if a young girl or a young boy suddenly develops this love of horses, it can be fulfilled to a degree or another, which a lot of. In a lot of countries that's just not possible.

Kristina Naden [00:15:32]:
Yeah. There's some Facebook horse groups and stuff that I'm on. And I see even Just the expense of having horses in some countries, it's crazy. And you can actually do it. I say cheaply in New Zealand. That's until they decide to wave their leg through a fence or something and then that's a whole other story. But you can keep a horse fairly cheaply here. It depends if you're comfortable.

Kristina Naden [00:15:56]:
You might be able to get a thoroughbred off the track. Someone this morning, a friend of mine who's a trainer counter, he said, oh, you're looking for another horse, aren't you? I've got this lovely thoroughbred. And I went, no, no, no, no, three's enough. But you know, she was like, you know, he'd be free and he's this and he's that and I've seen the horse and it's beautiful and lovely looking horse. But you know, if you've got the ability, I guess to do that or to support people to help you with a young, inexperienced horse, then yeah, you can do it. It is really accessible here compared to other countries and even, you know, in. I'm in Auckland and in the middle of Auckland and St Helias there's a pony club still, which I think is really cool. And Tearita, you know, there's a pony club there right by the motorway.

Kristina Naden [00:16:37]:
And so we are, we are lucky that we've got access to that and there's some amazing places to ride. You know, we've got regional parks in Auckland that we can access and ride to and we can go ride on the beach and it's, it's, we are lucky. Really lucky.

Julie South [00:16:50]:
Yeah, we're blessed.

Kristina Naden [00:16:56]:
I'm a research geek. I always want to talk about my research. It's like, you won't have trouble shutting me up probably. So I'm doing my masters. It's a research only masters. So there's no coursework which I chose on purpose. I was sort of overdoing courses and just wanted to do a research project. So I do it.

Kristina Naden [00:17:12]:
It's a thesis by chapter. So for the masters there's three chapters and then you add on two chapters for your PhD. So I've just completed the third chapter and just presented that at a conference the other week, which was actually a little bit hairy because it was the New Zealand association for Behavioral Analysis. So it was a lot of human behaviorists. And I was thinking, oh my God, I had that imposter syndrome came up again and I was sat and I first got there. I'm thinking these people, they're all like psychologists and all this sort of stuff and here's me talking about horses. But it went really well and there were some really neat questions, actually, about, you know, how horses. How.

Kristina Naden [00:17:49]:
Because it would. That part of the presentation was people's ability to identify behaviors from little short videos of horses. So both in a therapeutic riding context and just hanging out in the paddock and things like that. So it was really interesting. People. Yeah. The questions they had about, you know, why, how do people. How do people get confused about some of these behaviors? And I don't know, just like, why do horses exhibit these kinds of behaviors? Which.

Kristina Naden [00:18:18]:
That's a massive long question. But, yeah, so that's all sort of pretty much stuff being published or is about to be published.

Julie South [00:18:28]:
I hope you found that helpful because that wraps up another really informative chat with Christina Naden. As always, Christina's shown us how veterinary nursing can be a springboard into exciting global career directions which can lead, if you want to international travel. Remember that you can find this episode along with Christina's other shows and all our other guests and discussions at VeterinaryVoices NZ. This is Julie south signing off for this week and inviting you to go out there and be the most fantabulous version of you. You can be Kaketi Anno.