Transcript
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Welcome to the Vet Staff podcast, the place where veterinary professionals can join me, julie South, in discovering how we can all get our heads screwed on straight, get excited about going to work on Monday mornings and lead less stressful and more fulfilling lives at home and at work.
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This is episode 156 and it's the second half of the chat.
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Tanya Bruce, one of Vet Staff's specialist recruiters and our resident coach, and me, julie South, caught up with extended disc certified practitioner Lucy Smith.
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Lucy works with teams throughout New Zealand.
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If you haven't listened to the first half of the chat that Tanya and I had, I recommend you do listen to it.
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In that episode, which was 155, lucy gives an overview of the four different personality types and how each personality profile might respond and or react in different scenarios.
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Today, lucy talks about the four different stages of team development.
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She mentions forming, storming, norming and performing.
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She also talks about how having high EQ, high emotional intelligence, can make a positive difference in team dynamics and what you can expect when that's the case.
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Stay tuned, because we start the chat off where I ask Lucy about the most miraculous and amazing outcomes she's seen when working with teams.
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The Vet Staff podcast is proudly powered by VetClinicJobscom, the new and innovative global job board, reimagining veterinary recruitment.
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Connect in veterinary professionals with clinics that shine online.
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Vetclinicjobscom is your go-to resource for finding the perfect career opportunities and helping Vet Clinics power up their employer branding game.
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Visit VetClinicJobscom today to find Vet Clinics that shine online, so veterinary professionals can find them.
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Vetclinicjobscom.
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I don't think it's about miraculous changes.
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A lot of these things are very, very subtle.
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But what these things do is it gives you a new language to use, and I think that that is really, really important.
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And I don't know if it's a miracle, but I think certainly, when something just clicks and people can go, oh, that's why they do this, I understand now.
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And then, of course, then it gives people everybody a new way to talk and a new way of understanding and working with the other person, which is why it's such a good thing.
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And you also know you can learn how everyone fits within that team.
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So one of the things that I do is team reports, so everyone in a team gets an individual profile and they get their debrief so they understand it, and you can also find out how that kind of fits within everyone's role within the team, because everyone's going to sit on somewhere in in that quadrant, but it could be at any point within that quadrant because it depends on their individual mix of those 160 different combinations.
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But everyone's got these roles, so you could be a changer, you could be an influencer, you could be a specialist, you could be a developer, a doer there's, I think, 10, 12 different styles that you can have within that team and they all have benefit.
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And I think that's the really nice thing is that you can understand that someone's quirks are not, they're not annoying, they actually bring benefit.
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And you can learn what those benefits are.
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And I think if there's anything miraculous about it is when somebody suddenly able because I've got the language to do it they're able to use their own strengths, and that I mean using your strengths can be the difference between staying and looking for a new job.
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You know that can keep somebody who would otherwise be really really good but who is on the verge of leaving because they aren't using their skills and their strengths.
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They might be using their skills really, really well, they might be a wonderful vet or a wonderful vet, nurse, but they're not using, they're not able to use their strengths because people just don't really get them.
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One of the questions that I wouldn't say often, but pretty frequently we have vets or nurses and the conversation usually starts off how much should I be paid?
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That's like, here we go.
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That usually is the precursor to the fact that they are unhappy where they are.
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After lots and lots and lots of open-ended questions, we find out that it's it's kind of has a little bit to do with the money, but not always.
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Then the question is if we could change something at your job, what would that be?
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For you to stay, because most of the time they don't want to leave, unless you know they need to because of geography.
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There's a relocation involved with significant other or parents that they need to to look after or kids that they need to put into a different school, but most of the time people want to stay and it's when we're asking these.
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You know what needs to change.
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If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing, what would it be?
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Then it's us doing what we can to support and this is where Tanya comes in support the person and the job to stay where they are, because no clinic, with their weight insult, will want to lose a key team player when we are in such a global shortage of those skills?
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It's just asking the question, asking the question.
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And so often money, I think, masks the real issues.
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But you're right, I mean people don't want to change job because it's it's a really big decision.
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It's scary.
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And in a role I used to have, I wrote a lot of recruitment ads.
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I've written like well into the hundreds of recruitment ads and, to be honest with me, I think that's probably one of the things that got me interested in teams the kinds of things that people are actually looking for versus what.
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When you look at the ad you think that they're looking for it.
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Very, very interesting to see kind of behind the scenes of all that.
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But the one, one of the key things that I was always really conscious of is that you are it's not just a job you are asking people to make a major life change and a major, major decision.
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I mean it takes at least three months to settle into a new role.
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And you're leaving behind years of understanding of a team culture or, in the case of vet clinics, you're leaving behind some clients and some animals that you probably really, really care about.
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You know these, these dogs that you've looked after for ages and you've resuscitated and given C sections to and, you know, delivered puppies and all kinds of stuff, and so it's always going to be easier to keep people and if you can and people are, as Julie says, very, very happy, usually happy to stay if the conditions are right for them to do so and if they're getting you know what, what they need from it.
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Absolutely, and I love that you touched on three months to settle into a new workplace, and that's what we offer here.
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So I'm coaching our candidates and their new roles and it's just more about supporting them into their transition.
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We focus a lot on the positives and helping them to never, never, get any challenges that may come up during that time, and that's not usually challenges presenting within the workplace.
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That's more, more based on incorporating home life balance, with new hours, shifts, making new relations.
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So we're navigating all that and trying to work out what's the best possible way to look at this from your perspective not coming in and making assumptions, what they need to do, because only they know that.
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And the other thing that's really important with that is to consider the rest of the team.
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Yes, so in that in that three month period so there's typically we talk about there's four stages of team development.
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So there's forming, so it's when you know the team, the team forms, whether that's a new team or it's somebody who's just joined it.
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Storming, so that's getting through the really really hard part where you don't really understand each other and you're still kind of getting to know each other.
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Maybe there's a little bit of conflict.
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Then there's norming, where you kind of have moved past that stage and it's starting to feel right again and then performing when they're all working well together.
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But the thing to remember is that when somebody joins a team, it's not just them forming a relationship with the people in the team, it changes the entire team dynamic.
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So if you have a team of five people, you know you're going to be able to do that.
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There are actually about 20 different relationships within that team and when Bob leaves and Joe comes in, that's 20 different relationships that have changed, that need to be reformed because how people Work with Bob around, whatever Bob brings to the table, is not there anymore and it's not the same and they have to find a different way to relate to one another.
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So it's not a fast process and that's why it's always better to keep people where you can and keep.
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Keep people in the industry, because it's it's a very, very hard, it's a very hard space to be in, from what I understand, but people go into it because they want to go into it.
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I mean, and that's, that's the real thing and I it's a calling in a vocation as much as anything else.
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Yeah, it's, of course, to lose people like that it's a.
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It's a.
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It's a tragedy on a personal level and on an industry level, because you want people who are, who are so passionate about what they're doing.
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It's what I refer to as a passion profession.
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Yeah, absolutely and it is a calling it is also, though, I think, one of the other reasons why it's so important to understand more about the people in it, because, typically, people will go into it because they love animals and they don't consider quite so much the fact that it's actually the people that they're dealing with most of the animals.
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Well, oftentimes, the animals you're dealing with are under anesthetic, so, yeah, and I can't even use the ties people when they look like they might bite you.
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I'm sure we will come across people who would love to put a muzzle on, but we can't do that.
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So the next best thing is to learn, is to learn to work with them, and it's I.
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Years ago I qualified as in Canine behavior and training.
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So I've kind of had that side of it where I thought I was going to be working, working with dogs, because I love dogs, I want to work with dogs, but of course, if you're doing dog training, you're training the person.
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So there's a lot, a lot of working with people that you have to do far, but you have far more contact with the people than you ever do with the animals, absolutely.
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And it's not to say that you know you don't need to get, obviously get to know the animals, but it is certainly it's the people who are most most of your day in, day out, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily kind of expect or consider that when they, when they think I want to work with animals.
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Lucy, our clients are vet staffs, clients are Kai Tai at a bluff.
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If there's a practice manager right now listening to this episode and thinking, yeah, I need to get hold of you, are you able?
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Like you, lucy, not me because I'm 2d Do you work remotely?
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I do work remotely.
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How would somebody get?
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hold of you.
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So somebody in the first instance could have a look at my website, which is just Dab-dab-dab-dab.
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Lucy Smith NZ.
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They can send me an email at hello at Lucy Smith NZ.
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It's all very, very simple and we will organize a time.
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Just have a bit of a chat about what you think you need.
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I will typically start any coaching with extended disc.
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I think it's really really valuable tool because, as I said before, just it fast tracks the whole process of Of finding out what is what, what's going on for people, and we will arrange for your team to be profiled and Then each person will complete a questionnaire.
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So that's takes.
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It should only take them 15 minutes to do.
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It's not long, they shouldn't need any more than that really and then we'll make a time to have a 60 minute one-on-one debrief about it.
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So I will go through it with them.
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I will explain what all the little graphs mean.
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There's a lot of graphs for those who like, who like things like that, and we'll do it, will go through it and just and find out more about what it's kind of thrown up.
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Sometimes there'll be stuff that's a massive surprise.
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Sometimes people will Be like, oh Yep, the light bulb moments, and it's then really valuable, because then they can see that okay, so this is demotivating them, them, or this is what motivates them, and they're either getting too much or not enough of that in their work.
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And then then, of course, if you're finding a lot of that, then it's a really good place to start talking to the practice manager about what they can then do to bring it, bring in more of that of what People in kind of needing or one-on-one coaching, if they need that as well Do people change over time, because I know I joke about being a reform D.
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I've done a lot, a lot of work on myself and I'm not the same person that I was 20 years, 30 years ago.
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Is that because we change as we mature or because I am a lot more self-aware?
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Generally, a person's natural style will stay reasonably static over time.
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It would be really unusual for someone to have been a D and then change to being an S.
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What does happen is that as you get older, as you learn more self-awareness, you have different experiences.
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You practice different things.
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Sometimes those will change a little bit and the things that took you more energy you will take you less energy because you've learned things and got more self-aware.
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But you will often find that you will, under pressure, revert to the styles that you would naturally be inclined to.
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Anybody can increase their comfort with being a different style for a time, but I think when it comes to a crunch, what's natural will prevail.
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While you're a Reformed D, I think when you're under pressure, you'll probably start really feeling that need to be in control and to just keep making stuff happen.
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Yeah, it's the happening.
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Just get on and do it.
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Tanya, I'm going to throw you a curveable question.
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You've listened to Lucy.
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Where do you think you sit on the scale?
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It's an interesting jolly because I've been trying to work that out, because it's funny enough.
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It's a D.
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I like to get on and get things done.
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I can be direct, but also I'm a very much a people person and I probably wouldn't have gotten to the coaching that I learned without having that need to help others.
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So there's so many different aspects and in fact I probably need to get this.
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So you've done a very good job of not answering that question.
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Now just answer it please.
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I know I do Just do it.
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I will say that I know some wonderful coaches who are D styles.
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So it's never about what you're good at, whatever your style is.
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It's not about whether you can or can't do something.
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It's just about what takes you the least energy.
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You can be a D and still care a lot about other people.
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Absolutely.
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What I would say is that it is possible to get these done for free online, and I will urge people not to do that, not to kind of jump onto Google and jump onto whatever free thing, because they're invalidated.
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They haven't got the robust systems behind them.
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They're not actually that much more useful than those quizzes in teenage magazines that we used to do.
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Do you identify as a D Tanya?
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Oh, I thought you were asking Lucy then.
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I've noticed that you haven't answered the question yet.
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Okay, yes, a lot of the time I probably am a D.
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Yes, yes, julie a, d.
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What do you do when you're under pressure, when you're stressed out?
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When I'm stressed out.
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I guess maybe it's a learnt behaviour.
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I have to just stay in that moment and just stay still and think.
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I go fairly within and quiet so that I can think about it first.
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However, I do like to control the situation and, instead of letting it unfold, there's a chance that you're a CD or a DC.
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It could be something like that Again.
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See our learnt behaviours.
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Everything's a learnt behaviour.
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We learnt things from the moment we born.
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Over time, you find the ways that are best for you to deal with things.
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Sometimes they're not the best.
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As I said, my thing is procrastinating and wanting to know all the information before I can make a decision, when really I should just go, okay, right, let's do it.
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Which made things like buying a house a long process, because you end up, oh, I just need to think about it some more and do all the research and then, boom, you've missed out on it because somebody else was a little bit faster you were thin, things like that, of course.
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Yeah, in things like that, you do have to learn when that behaviour is, I guess, holding you back.
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Or land you into trouble.
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We're all in a combination of styles and different styles will show up in different ways.
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I mean, just because I'm a CSI does not mean that somebody else, who's CSI is going to behave in any way like the same way as I do, because their experiences, their upbringing, everything is just going to be different.
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That, of course, is why it's good to know the information that you get in the report, which is 20 pages long.
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It's good to know the information that's inside that, rather than just what styles are represented by that person, which, of course, with those free online things, that's kind of all you get, whether they're actually accurate or not.
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Anyway, two DCs, three DCs, could be completely different to each other.
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Yeah, I think that Tanya and I you know we both get on do it from different, we do it in different ways, and Tanya is a lot more.
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I don't actually regard myself as an extrovert.
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I can be extrovert, but my preference is to be by myself.
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I recharge internally, I'm in.
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I guess I'm probably ambivert.
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I can be either, or my preference is to be by myself and not around lots of noisy people, because that is just absolutely draining Totally, it's exhausting.
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It's absolutely exhausting, whereas my husband, alan, it's totally energising for him.
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So I think, tanya, we are similar, the same, bit different, which is a bit scary for everybody else.
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It certainly is, and I have to agree with that.
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There are certain times where you know I get the most work done in silence.
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Like you know how some people can be around other people or have music going, I have to have silence to get on and get stuff done.
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However, I do, for example, our team meetings and this it's just.
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You know, I really enjoyed this as well.
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I mean I think a lot of it does depend on the group that you're in as well.
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I mean there'll be certain times I get tons of energy from going out seeing friends, but I think I and I go.
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I discovered, as a lot of us did during lockdown, that while I was assumed that I was an introvert, I really actually do like to see other humans from time to time.
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Got, so I have, I have learned that I do need to get out and be around others, but I definitely, after I've done that, I Do like just have a little bit of quiet time to kind of to recharge and regroup.
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So I mean it's it's not to say that if you're, if you, I guess, identify as an introvert, you're not good at being around people, but it's, it's just about where you kind of you get you recharge your energy from doing so.
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I mean an interesting thing with disc is that it doesn't.
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It doesn't really Talk about ambiverts that I've seen, but I suppose that that's covered in the fact that you can be more than one style and on and in any combination on either side of that introvert, extrovert axis and it's.
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I mean it also depends like.
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I mean I would get a lot more energy from seeing a group of my good friends, then I would from being in a you know, from spending having dinner with a group of total strangers, because it just takes.
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It takes that much less energy with people that you know and that you're comfortable with and You're not constantly checking how you're kind of, you're presenting, because of course we are, we act differently in different situations so you might have far more C tendencies in one area, like at work, far more eye tendencies with your friends, because that's what takes the least energy.
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I mean we talk differently to our partner, to our friend, than we would to our mother, I Hope, and indeed to our grandmother or our boss or you know a client, or our dog or cat or or whatever.
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So I mean this.
00:22:59.805 --> 00:23:08.744
I think this is the thing that I like that humans are just so wonderfully complex and we're so, so different.
00:23:08.744 --> 00:23:16.001
We behave so differently in different situations and you know, in different times and Spaces and different conditions.
00:23:16.762 --> 00:23:20.470
Lucy, when you meet people for the first time, do you think You're a C?
00:23:20.470 --> 00:23:21.573
You're an S?
00:23:24.377 --> 00:23:36.463
I try, I try not to pigeonhole people, but I do generally notice and that's probably a good thing, because then I have a better idea of how to, how I can speak with them.
00:23:36.463 --> 00:23:41.820
Because if I know that, if I, if I'm going, oh I think you might be a day, then I will know.
00:23:41.820 --> 00:23:44.689
Just to cut the waffle and just get to the point, and yeah, it is.
00:23:44.689 --> 00:23:58.133
It can be quite hard to do, not to go oh, you're a C or I think you're a C, so I should be doing this because you take, you take the cues from the other person as well, right, so if they're asking you a lot of questions, then you answer that.
00:23:58.133 --> 00:24:13.039
You answer their questions, even if you think that maybe they might not be a style that would normally want a lot of questions, but it gets, it gives you a clue, it gives, it, can give you clues but not necessarily to be all an end all of how you expect to Kind of interact with another person.
00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:19.153
I imagine it would give you the skills to respond rather than react.
00:24:19.595 --> 00:24:22.654
Yes, very much so 100%.
00:24:23.881 --> 00:24:26.554
Lucy, we just I've talked about I'm a reformed D.
00:24:26.554 --> 00:24:34.550
Reformed D, I like to think it's because my EQ, my emotional intelligence, is reasonably well developed.
00:24:34.550 --> 00:24:44.530
How does that play into play out of work with having a better understanding of people and, specifically, disk?
00:24:45.617 --> 00:24:46.219
Yes, so you have.
00:24:46.219 --> 00:25:03.694
I mean it's, people talk about it a lot, but you talk about, we talk about your IQ, your intelligence quotient Versus your EQ, your emotional quotient, your emotional intelligence, and it's historically, I think, being considered one of those soft skills.
00:25:03.694 --> 00:25:09.469
You can't, you can't see me doing the air quotes, but the soft skills in the workplace and I don't.
00:25:09.469 --> 00:25:14.601
I wish they wouldn't say that it's soft, because it's it's not.
00:25:14.601 --> 00:25:21.694
It's incredibly important because this is how we I mean it's basically what disk is it's how you understand each other.
00:25:21.694 --> 00:25:29.807
It's how you learn to react to one another appropriately, how you understand what people, what's going on for people.
00:25:29.807 --> 00:25:34.678
So you learn, you get, you gain the self awareness when you do this.
00:25:34.678 --> 00:25:37.903
So you learn that this thing that you do can be a stress behavior.
00:25:38.984 --> 00:25:53.067
What you can also learn in terms of your EQ is, if you happen to know that somebody is a particular style, you can then learn what their stress behaviors are.
00:25:53.067 --> 00:25:57.694
So somebody's doing, we know that someone's doing this, or they're under stress.
00:25:57.694 --> 00:26:00.895
What can I do to help you with this?
00:26:00.895 --> 00:26:04.596
You know how is there something that you need?
00:26:04.596 --> 00:26:10.500
Because I'm noticing this thing that you're doing and I'm just wondering is everything okay?
00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:17.593
And it might be, or they might say actually I'm not coping right now.
00:26:17.593 --> 00:26:18.982
Can you help with this?
00:26:18.982 --> 00:26:25.712
And this is all where it's really important to build that kind of understanding of EQ within the team.
00:26:25.712 --> 00:26:34.648
So I mean, that's a culture thing, that's building the team culture and having that, I guess, trust in each other and that support system in place.
00:26:34.648 --> 00:26:51.750
But this is where I think that this can be really really valuable in creating that support system, because you understand a lot more about people's just behavioral styles and why they do the things that they do or sometimes say the things that they say in that particular way.
00:26:52.660 --> 00:26:52.839
Listeners.
00:26:52.839 --> 00:27:01.028
I will put links to previous EQ social quotient as well social intelligence episodes that we've had before.
00:27:01.028 --> 00:27:05.170
I'll put them in the show notes for this page so that you can click on them if you're interested.
00:27:05.170 --> 00:27:07.003
Tanya anything else.
00:27:07.926 --> 00:27:10.185
No, this has been amazing.
00:27:10.185 --> 00:27:11.585
Thank you so much, lucy.
00:27:11.585 --> 00:27:13.987
I've learnt so much from you today.
00:27:14.508 --> 00:27:15.069
Oh, you're welcome.
00:27:15.069 --> 00:27:16.846
I have really enjoyed talking about it.
00:27:16.846 --> 00:27:20.646
It's great to have an opportunity to talk people's ears off.
00:27:23.644 --> 00:27:26.906
Can we just have your contact details again, and you're on LinkedIn.
00:27:27.902 --> 00:27:29.428
Yep, I'm on LinkedIn.
00:27:29.428 --> 00:27:30.141
You can find me.
00:27:30.141 --> 00:27:34.592
Lucy Smith Coach is the little URL that I created for that.
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.727
And your website address and email.
00:27:36.859 --> 00:27:40.528
My website address is wwwlucysmithnz.
00:27:43.019 --> 00:27:45.288
And hello at lucysmithnz.
00:27:45.288 --> 00:27:47.983
Yes, it's very easy.
00:27:47.983 --> 00:28:00.273
I hope you found listening in on this chat with Tanya, lucy and myself helpful.
00:28:00.273 --> 00:28:10.252
Remember that you can get in touch with Lucy at lucysmithnz or by emailing her at helloatlucysmithnz.
00:28:10.252 --> 00:28:16.390
We touched on emotional intelligence and teams today.
00:28:16.390 --> 00:28:34.073
If you'd like to listen to the episodes I mentioned, the links will be in the show notes wherever you're listening to this episode right now, and the specific episodes are episode 39, entitled 12 statements low EQ people make.
