Every Cat in a Lap: How Change Starts in Your Vet Clinic | Dr Helen Beattie - pt 2

Julie South [00:00:05]:
Imagine a world where every cat is safe and happy at home, where national wildlife flourishes. And you, one of New Zealand's highly skilled and influential veterinary professionals, are at the forefront of making this vision a reality. Welcome to Veterinary Voices. This is episode 216 and I'm your host. With listeners tuning in from over 1400 cities worldwide, veterinary Voices celebrates all that's great about working in New Zealand's veterinary industry. So find out more by visiting VeterinaryVoices NZ. In this, the second instalment of our three part series with Dr. Helen Beattie, we unpack the complex and often controversial topic of national cat management.

Julie South [00:01:02]:
As a veterinary professional, you'll already know how one unspayed cat contributes to the feline overpopulation we currently have here in New Zealand, Aotearoa. But what if we were to shift that conversation so it leads to critical changes in both animal welfare and environmental conservation? Today, we're exploring the myths surrounding feline reproduction, the challenges of changing public perceptions and the pivotal role veterinary professionals play in steering this important conversation. Who knows, this episode might be a conversation that maybe, just maybe, could reshape how you approach feline care and client education in your practice. Veterinary Voices is brought to you by Vet Staff, New Zealand's only recruitment agency specialising in helping veterinary professionals find jobs that they're excited about going to on Monday mornings in Kiwi vet clinics. That's Vetstaff co NZ veterinarian Dr. Helen Beattie, who playfully calls herself a crazy cat lady despite not currently owning a cat. She is today. Why responsible cat ownership is more complex than most people realize.

Julie South [00:02:32]:
I'll put all links that Dr. Howland mentions today and her episode from last week on banning live exports in the show notes at VeterinaryVoices NZ.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:02:49]:
I often refer to myself as a crazy cat lady. Not because I have 10 cats. I actually don't have a cat at the moment because my cat would not be kept safe and happy at home and I think is one of the lead voices on this in the country. If I'm going to have a cat, I've got to do the right thing and my fence isn't. My section isn't fenced. I call myself the crazy cat lady because I've been advocating about of on this topic for over a decade now and I feel like I've said the same thing over and over and over again and you know which, the error probably sits with me. In that case I need to change the narrative. But yeah, 10 years down the track we've made some progress around cats and Cat management and I think probably the social change around cats, but we haven't achieved what we really want as the national cat management group, of which the nzpa, which is where I was when that started, was a key player.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:03:40]:
Yeah. So what do we need? So we need something in place on a national level to set the real foundations, the keystones of what we need for cat management. And to your point, the reason we need that is because it the moment all the local councils have to pass their own bylaw, so it's a very inefficient way of doing things. They've got to go out and consult and then get piled in on by the people who hate the idea of it, da da da da. So it's just, it's really inefficient. We, we really need those big key things. So microchipping and registering your microchip so your cat can be identified as an owned cat and you can be found as a guardian. Ideally for the vast majority, we would want desexing to be part of that.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:04:21]:
There is obviously exceptions to that rule for breeders, et cetera, et cetera. And long term the national legislation would be around also being required to keep your cat safe and happy at home. But that's a much longer term goal because we need to make sure cat welfare is protected in that too. It's not a matter of just putting the cat inside and shutting the door. Like if cats have been free roaming, that's not fair. So there's real intergenerational change that's needed there on a national level. There's lots of councils that have put in bylaws. I have lost count of how many there is now.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:04:52]:
Predator Free NZ keeps a good list of that, as does SPCA and Cairns, et cetera. But there are more and more coming online just telling us there's an appetite to do something right and you know, they're trying at a local level. I think the single biggest win in this over the decade I've been involved though is the change in attitude. So when I first started this conversation, I don't know, people might remember Gareth Morgan's Cats To Go campaign, which had some, oh, some terrible outcomes of people killing cats and you know, hanging them in tree. Just awful stuff that was, you know, nobody ought think is appropriate. It was so, so contentious then and really emotive and just, you know, quite a dangerous, for want of a better word, you know, conversation to have with anyone. Because it was, it, yeah, it was really, really highly geared. Whereas I feel a decade later where There's a much larger percentage of the population and people who are much more reasonable about going, okay, actually we do need to do something.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:05:49]:
We can see it's hard, but actually we do need to make progress on this for our wildlife. And cats, right? Cats get hit by cars if they're roaming around, they get lost, they get stolen. Cat fights. And there's wins on both sides if we can get it right.

Julie South [00:06:03]:
So there's two parts to this. We've got the desexing and we have the management side. So why, on the off chance that somebody has stumbled across this episode and still thinks that kittens are cute and they are absolutely, and they are absolutely no threat to anything. Enlighten us. What can happen with. From one cute kitten?

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:06:33]:
Yeah, well, they're saying breeds like rabbits really should be breeds like cats. You know, like one, one undesexed queen can, you know, I don't know what the actual numbers are that you see all sorts of graphics around that pyramid that one cat can produce in a lifetime. So yeah, I mean, the unwanted unregulated breeding is a huge problem for a couple of reasons. One is that oversupply and a whole bunch of those animals end up without homes. We know some of them get dumped. Dumped cats then continue to breed. And so then you've got another whole population, et cetera, et cetera. But also some of those animals end up having to be dealt with or re homed and looked after through shelters, whether that's SPCA or any number of cat shelters that exist throughout the country.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:07:20]:
And they do, a lot of them do great work. I do have some concerns about some of the trap neuter return programs that some of them use, which is really indiscriminate. And I am strongly opposed to indiscriminate TNR as we call it. But overall, they're doing essentially a service getting these animals in, getting them desexed and trying to find them homes. The problem is that there's just. The tap just doesn't turn off because we've got no controls on the, on the breeding side of it. I worked at the SPCA for a number of years and there's, there is, there's no off button, but they just keep coming. And the populations between your companion cat, the stray cats that live in your community, in your urban area, and then where those urban areas, you know, bump into forest and bush and where we might find feral cats which are really totally independent of humans, all three of those populations of cats can interbreed.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:08:14]:
There's, you know, we can't just focus on desexing and managing our companion cats. That's a starting place. But then we have to go right then how do we deal with the stray cat community and then also the feral cats who most people never see a feral cat, like, they're the ones that are, you know, really. They're truly independent and in the bush and the ones we hear stories about but we don't see very often.

Julie South [00:08:34]:
Back in the day, and I'm talking the 80s here, when we were somewhat. I was totally ignorant, and I'm sure veterinarians were not ignorant. I had a queen. I had this. I rescued a kitten that I found dumped. Turned out she was a tortoiseshell with attitude, and I did not need any guard dogs. But. And my intention was always to get herself spade.

Julie South [00:09:06]:
She got pregnant way before I was expecting her to fall pregnant. And her first litter, I think, was four kittens. Then I had every intention of getting her spayed straight after. Again, it happened far faster than. She ended up with three litters.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:09:30]:
She.

Julie South [00:09:30]:
She gave birth to three litters super fast. It was almost like a production line. And then when I kind of realized that I ain't got no time here. As soon as she had given birth to the last lot, I took her straight to the vet. I think I gave myself a couple of weeks and she was pregnant again, which was pretty scary. I found homes for all of those kittens, which I was pretty proud of. But it happened so fast.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:10:02]:
Yep. Hence the breed like cats, not breed like rabbits.

Julie South [00:10:05]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:10:06]:
And I think, you know, I think that story is probably not uncommon, Julie. Like, people, you know, with the best of intentions find themselves in the situation. And I mean, you know, as a vet, we used to spay cats that were. I used to spay cats that were pregnant. Not irregularly. You know, it's a bit awkward, but at the same time, there is just no lack of supply. We simply do not need more kittens. So.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:10:29]:
So I think, you know, you have to be a little bit pragmatic about it. And obviously they're anesthetized and, you know, or just little tiny bobble.

Julie South [00:10:35]:
I didn't ask. They just told me she was pregnant.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:10:39]:
Yeah, I don't want to know. Yeah, yeah, But. But as I say, I think that your story is probably not uncommon. There's also those myths. Right. And these things kind of frustrate me. Oh, she'll be a better cat when she's had kittens. I'm like, well, I don't know.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:10:53]:
Am I A better mother because I've had children. Well, am I a better person because I've had children? My. That probably depends on the day to be honest. But you know. Yeah, there's nothing in that. Right. It's an old, an old wives tale and as far as, you know, from the kids perspective, it's good for them to see a litter and that sort of thing. I'm like, well, you know, like if that's really how you feel about it, then get your kids to go along and go to the SPCA and go and see the litters that are there and see the numbers and understand why we don't need your own cat to be adding to that.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:11:25]:
So I think there's ways we can. The first thing is a myth. She will not be better off having kittens. And the second thing we can manage using different tools and help kids understand why actually it's really important to have them desexed and not roaming around.

Julie South [00:11:38]:
I kind of dread if my. Her name was Sweep. If Sweep hadn't had kittens, it's a bit scary what she would have been, you know, if being a mother made her a nicer cat. It was pretty scary. Scary what she might have been like without being a mother.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:11:55]:
The thing is, you said tortoise shell, Julie. There's no need to qualify that by being a fractious tortoise shell. I didn't know he's a gene. Yeah. Female genders as well.

Julie South [00:12:05]:
Yeah, I didn't know that. And then I was talking, I was talking with another vet and she said, oh, sorry. She said that sounds. That's very cattist of me.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:12:15]:
It is, yeah. And I absolutely not aware of any research that can back up this. But I think the vast majority of vets would absolutely agree and without a shadow of doubt go. Yep, they're all, they've all got a bit of attitude. We've had one actually that's lived over the road and she's a tortie and she's just all of that sass, you know, it's on her terms only. Yeah.

Julie South [00:12:40]:
I came home from work one day and my flatmate was on the dining table, standing on the dining table with a tennis racket. His language was extremely blue, telling me to get my cat off because my. I don't know what he had done but he was using the tennis racket to fend off poor Sweep. Okay.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:13:07]:
I've often said I'd rather deal with an angry dog than an angry cat because dogs are just sharp in one place. I mean they can Be terrifying too, don't get me wrong, but a cat? My God, where do you start? It needs to go in a bag. Yeah.

Julie South [00:13:20]:
So how can we help you, Helen? What can we do? Hey, a super quick pause here. I want to share something that could be a game changer for vet clinics struggling to attract your dream team members. Here's the thing. If you're still posting the same old job ads and wondering why nothing is changing, it's time for a fresh approach. VetClinicJobs.com isn't just another job board. It's a platform that helps you showcase what makes your clinic special to your future dream team members. For just $99 New Zealand per job listing, you can DIY and connect directly with job seekers. No recruitment agencies involved.

Julie South [00:14:16]:
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Dr. Helen Beattie [00:14:51]:
This again. These are long games, right? From a veterinary perspective, the thing that we need vets to do is to get on the same page as the National Cat Management Group, upskill themselves, make sure they understand what our recommendations are and acknowledge that we're not necessarily recognised as the experts and cats in the country. But what we have done is sat together for a decade, decade and figured out, including how society and cat lovers and cat protection agencies and so on feel about this conversation and found some middle ground around. Right, here's what we need to do in order to make the progress that's required to get to our future state. In our future state, our ideal, our utopia, is every cat in a lap. You know, there's no feral cats and there's no stray cats. Now, that's obviously an absolute pie in the sky, Bhagavad. But the point is that cat welfare would be better if there were no stray cats.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:15:43]:
If there were no feral cats, they wouldn't be predating on our native species and every cat would have a home. So I think if you think about it without getting angsty about the fact that there's a big piece in the middle about how we get there, it's a good vision. The details of getting there are a bit tricky, but vets are really important in the conversation because they are an influential voice. And I do get frustrated that we hear, you know, having sat around this conversation for over a decade now and understanding kind of why we've said actually targeted managed TNR is necessary as part of our long journey because we simply can't go out and, you know, for example, just trap and euthanase or trap and kill all of the stray cats in Dunedin, there would be outrage. It's a terrible thing to think about. That would even be what someone thought was the next best option. The social license to operate on that type of program also would be about zero. Right.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:16:42]:
Even for someone like me, who, you know, I see the long picture here, it's just awful. So there's reasons why we've suggested things like targeted managed trap, neuter and return. And we really need to get vets on board and understand what we mean by that. We wouldn't do that. Use that practice and put them back next to an ecologically sensitive area. So here in Aute Porti, Dunedin, we've got the Orokanui Sanctuary. There needs to be a halo around that so that nobody tnrs a cat back into that area where we're getting spillover and fledglings getting killed. So all of those things.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:17:11]:
As far as what you can do from a veterinary perspective, from a clinic perspective, from anyone who's talking about cats, it's important to get on board and understand the Kaupapa and why we've recommended the things that we have recommended and reach out if you're not certain. Like, I'm always happy to talk about cats. In fact, you know, someone reached out, I'm having a chat on Thursday about this, that someone in Northland who's like, oh, what are we doing here? Why are we blocking? Blah, blah, I'm happy to talk about it because it's important to get people on board. I guess the second thing is that piece notwithstanding, which is really the key thing when we see initiatives that come up. Like there was a petition that went into the petitions committee recently that ended up with the Environment Select Committee. They wrote a report, we all went and submitted and they wrote a report and it's kind of landed. And unfortunately the government's kind of said, yeah, no, we're not interested, we're just going to shelve it again. And which is super disappointing.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:18:02]:
Like, when those things come up, it would be. It would be great if we get more support for those things because I think the volume and the momentum behind it actually matters. If government can hear that there's actually particularly the veterinary community really need to get something done about this. And I guess the final thing is I'm not an expert in this field at all, but I 100% believe that a huge part of what we need to do as veterinarians is understand human behavior change and how we talk about things matters to the outcomes we're trying to achieve. And one of the key things around the cat conversation becomes people believe they have to make a choice between wildlife or cats. And that's just not true. It's not a binary choice. We can have both.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:18:45]:
And it's important that we learn how to talk about it so that we can enable people to understand that rather than pushing them into one corner or the other. Because the minute you get that conflict, you're on a, you know, it's lose, lose. Right. So it sort of goes back a little bit to what I was saying about TNR and, you know, trapping, killing all of the stray cats in Dunedin. There's no social license for that. And so it's not part of the conversation. That's not our next step. We need to be thinking much more carefully about how we message things and why we're doing it and enabling people to see that this is, this is about what's best for our native species and for our cats and for our pastoral species, our farm systems who, you know, sheep and abortion Storm and Toxo and our dolphins, you know, like it.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:19:26]:
So I think the human behavior change piece in here is really, really. And vets tend to be, you know, we're quantitative scientists, we like our facts, that's how we operate. But actually that's not how most people operate. And being a logic bully and just throwing data at people doesn't change most people's minds. So we really need people to get on board with learning how to talk about it, to bring people on the journey rather than forcing them into a choice between one or the other, which is going to be a lose, lose for everybody.

Julie South [00:19:53]:
Are you able to give some examples of how vets could kick off a conversation?

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:19:59]:
We did a bunch of work with a social scientist and I say we, the National Cat Management Group did. And one of the catchphrases, and you'll hear it coming up all of the time, is about. It's not about confining cats or keeping cats inside. It's about keeping cats safe and happy at home. And there's two reasons for that. One is because it's better for the cat. It's when you talk about containment, we kind of think steel cages and, you know, it feels a bit icky. And we talk about keeping cats inside.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:20:25]:
Then people like me go, well, hang on a minute. Cats welfare could very well suffer if we just shut the door and keep them inside. So I get. No, I would get alienated from the conversation. And I, for the record, don't support that necessarily. Unless the cat is a cat that you know to whom that is suited as a lifestyle. So being able to use the. Keeping cats safe and happy at home just keeps the door open a little bit to say, right, well, that means we're acknowledging they're not going to roam, they're not going to be going and defecating in someone else's garden.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:20:54]:
They're not going to be spraying on the front door, they're not going to be getting hit by a car. It might be that you've cat proof fenced your section.

Julie South [00:21:01]:
Is that possible? Like, how high does a fence need to be? The reason I asked that question is a few years ago, my husband and I were sitting at our dining table. The fence between us and the neighbor was maximum height. There was a bird on that fence. A cat jumped one. Just one leap.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:21:26]:
Yeah.

Julie South [00:21:27]:
Got the bird and was gone. We looked at each other as if. Did we just see that? Is that. It was, it was horrible.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:21:36]:
Yeah, yeah. They're incredible athletes, aren't they? Like, you have to be well impressed, like from a standing, you know, standing start.

Julie South [00:21:42]:
So how can, how can you.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:21:44]:
I always feel like I'm doing some free promo for cat proof fencing, but if you Google cat fence, it's just one that I always can remember the name of because it's so simple, which is. Was good marketing on their account. But the fence is not so much about how high the fences have to be, but the technology of them. So there's a fence and they have a roller at the top. And so the cat of course jumps on it and then goes like. And then, you know, gets ejected into the section. So yes, it can be done. And again, these are some of the sort of the behavior change things that I'm talking about as far as changing how people think about this.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:22:14]:
Like if I say to you, if you had a 25 kilo dog that was really athletic, how high would you have to build a fence and what would that cost to keep it at home if you didn't want to, you know, tie it out or whatever, that's a big fence and that's a huge investment. And people don't really think twice about that now because dog legislation has been, you know, since 1996. It's been. It's just been a thing that we've kind of got used to. At the time that that legislation came in about keeping your dog at home and on a lead and getting it microchipped, there was fury and, you know, like, there was outrage. No. Whereas now we just go, that's just what we do. And it's not perfect, I get that.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:22:46]:
But essentially we've got ourselves into that place where we accept that. And so if you're thinking about having a cat, if you know that, to my mind, that's where we need to get our thinking to saying, it's no different to having a dog. And if I'm going to choose to have my cat free roaming in my section, the same way as I have my big dog free roaming in my section, I need a fence to keep my cat safe and happy at home. Yeah. And I mean, of course there are some challenges around that, so overhanging vegetation and so on and so forth. But, yeah, it absolutely can be done. And there's a number of companies now providing those types of fences. People then go, what about the bird that flies in? I'm like, well, there's also Darwinian, genetic Darwinian argument here that if you're that bird and you get eaten, then so be it.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:23:28]:
But it's again, a little bit like, you know, a dog could arguably do the same thing if it's out there and kill something. But the point is that it mitigates the vast majority of the risk of your cat roaming and, you know, going into the bush that's nearby and decimating a nest full of fledglings or whatever. So on our website, there's. If you go to the Our Work tab, there's stuff in there about cats too. We're actually at the moment working with a number of different groups around setting up a national education tool with hopefully with the view to making all of the different organizations that are part of the National Cat Management Group will link out to a different site and we'll have a whole bunch of resources and things there in one place. So in a tab for vets that's got a whole bunch of research and stuff in it in the National Cat Management Report, but also a place for cat guardians to be able to go and explore some key things to think about. And, you know, you're getting a cat. Have you thought about, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:24:27]:
So all of those. Yeah. Like, can you keep your cat safe and happy at home? Get your cat D6. Here's you know, microchip, register, da da da, all of those things. So that's a little and exciting project that we are sort of. We're steering towards very much in its infancy at this point. But that will be linked off all of our different websites in the long term. Hopefully.

Julie South [00:24:45]:
Knowing how much websites cost, I just know that that's an expense for you. So also where can listeners go to support you? Because it's yes, they can support you with emails and support but it's at the end of the day it's money that you need as well. So talk a little bit about that. How can people get involved?

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:25:11]:
Yeah, thank you. I realized that we sort of ended up talking about that earlier and that wasn't my intention but it is a reality of doing what we're doing, being a we charity. So there's a couple of ways people can support us in that. On our website, there's on the front page, you can join us. So that's the first thing we'd love to have more members. And you don't just have to be a veterinarian, you just have to like our Kaupapa. There's a donate button and that takes you to a give a little page that we've got set up. At the moment it looks like live exports because that's one of the big things that we're doing.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:25:42]:
But it all goes into the same pot. So even if you're not, if you're not a live export person then by donating you're donating to the, to the VAWA cause, not just the live exports cause. And then we've got a sponsorship link too. So if there happens to be an organization who's listening to us that wants to be a be a sponsor, then we're open to that too. So. And then we provide consultancy services so people can engage that. Doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things in that space for like largely animal welfare focus of course. But those are the key things and I guess, you know, spread the word.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:26:14]:
If you like what we're doing, I.

Julie South [00:26:16]:
Will put links to those as well in the show notes before we wrap up the cat discussion. Anything else you want to say?

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:26:26]:
That we have every cat in a lap.

Julie South [00:26:27]:
Cat in a lap, I like that. Yes, thank you. Because I have seen in my social media feeds lots of catio type constructions coming and I thought, I don't know, I don't have a cat. And I thought I don't have a cat because I feed birds. I like feeding the birds in the garden. But then I thought, you know, how, if I had a cat, how would I stop the cats getting from the birds and cats are sort of, you know, they like to roam. I don't know that I like the idea of this catio thing. So hearing about those rolling fence tops, I'll put a link there as well because that sounds good way.

Julie South [00:27:09]:
I still don't think I'll get a cat because the cat will get my birds.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:27:12]:
But yeah, no, and this, you know, this does become part of the challenge. Right. So because I feed birds too. But again, additionally, like I've said, I don't, I have, I've got lots of overhanging trees and a beautiful big corfi and I'm not prepared to sacrifice any of that for my own needs around having a cat. And I love cats, but there are ways of managing it and you know, for example, you could, if you didn't want to have a catio as a, as a, like a closed in area off your house or whatever, you, you could, you know, put a cat proof fence up on part of your section if that, if that works and then feed the birds in a different part. But yeah, I mean there's lots of things to think through. I mean, I guess the, the bottom line is just to know that there are options and then you have to balance up, you know, what your priorities are and how you feel about that and that that's an, on an individual basis. You know, like I say for me, I've decided, well actually, I mean presumably the cat would have a good life living with me, I hope.

Dr. Helen Beattie [00:28:04]:
But, but actually my needs around wanting to have a cat in my life taking second place to what I believe, you know, how I believe or where this Kaupapa sits in, in my priority list and it's very high. So I've made a choice to forego my pleasure of having a cat and be a catless child lady.

Julie South [00:28:32]:
Tune back in next week because next week Dr. Helen will be sharing how she's picked up the textbooks yet again, what life as a mature student is like and what she's studying for and where this totally wasn't part of her career plan as a veterinarian qualification might take her. This is Julie south signing off and inviting you to go out there and be your most fantabulous self. Until next week, Merry Christmas and Kaketi ano.