From Practitioner to Coach: A Veterinarian's Journey to Enhancing Communication and Relationship-Centred Care - ep 141

You.What if the key to success in veterinary practice lies not only in medical expertise, but also in the power of effective communication? Today, Dr. Meg Irvine shares her remarkable journey from childhood dreams to the challenges of being a new grad. Discover the crucial role of communication and client interactions,managing difficult personalities, and overcoming adversity. In this series, you'll gain valuable insights and practical tips that will transform your patient outcomes, job satisfaction and personal relationships. Join me and get ready to unlock the secrets of powerful communication and embark on a captivating exploration with Dr. Meg Irvine. Welcome to the Vetstaff podcast, your Goto guide for navigating the vet recruitment scene and boosting employer brand power.Discover practical strategies for both employers and employees to enhance your personal and clinic brands. Get ready to rock the recruitment market and create an exciting workplace where everyone loves going to work on Monday mornings. I'm your show host,Julie South.You're listening to episode one, four one and today I am super excited to be able to share the chat I had with Dr. Meg Irvine with you. This is the first in the three part series on the essentialness of effective communication to live a better life both at home and at work. Dr. Meg Irvine is a highly accomplished veterinarian with an impressive background. A graduate of Massey's Class of 99, she established herself as a leading professional in the field, currently serving as the owner and Director of Vet Life Skills.Dr. Meg is a former owner of Stoke Veterinary Hospital in Nelson, New Zealand, and is currently the veterinary manager for Vet Partners NZ. With over 23 years of clinical experience, Dr. Meg brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the profession.In addition to her clinical work, she's dedicated the last five plus years to teaching and coaching fellow veterinary professionals in effective communication and consultation skills. Dr. Meg's commitment to professional growth is evident through her completion of an advanced human engagement module from the University of Tennessee's veterinary Social work program.Furthermore, she's extensively researched communication training practices within the human GP field. This dedication has been recognized. She recently received the prestigious NZVA Educate the Educator Scholarship and successfully completed the Institute for Healthcare Communications Train the Trainer program at the University of Georgia, Athens, USA.Vet life skills limited under Dr. Meg's leadership.Holds the Institute for Healthcare Communications license.This license allows her company to teach using widely acclaimed materials that are utilized by veterinary teaching institutions worldwide. As you'll hear over the next few episodes, dr. Meg is driven by a genuine passion for the veterinary profession.She firmly believes in the transformative power of effective communication. Dr. Meg recognizes its critical role in improving client experience, patient outcomes, as well as the job satisfaction and overall well being of veterinary teams. We join the conversation today where I ask Dr. Meg how she knew veterinary was for her. We also talk about her first job which wasn't easy or plain sailing at all, and the importance of having good mentors in the first year of professionals life.I think it was probably mid high school, actually.I had sort of thought maybe I might quite like to be a veterinarian when I was younger. And we had a family friend who was a veterinarian for math, and I remember my mum saying to me, oh, you don't want to do that, Mr Muir. He's often covered in fleas.I sort of put that on hold for a while and then obviously the desire was there. So when it came to high school and choosing subjects and things like that, I've always loved science and actually, interestingly, I've always loved people as well, and animals.For me, it was definitely something that I was drawn to. Has it been everything you thought it would be? Not initially. I had a pretty rough new graduate year. I went straight from Massey to Australia and was in a sort of semi rural practice there and that was a pretty tough time. I was away from family and pretty tough boss and wasn't particularly well supported in that role. So I do feel really passionate now in my role about supporting new graduates as a result of that, because it really did knock me. In fact, probably the worst years of my life were my new graduate years. Yes, I feel quite passionate about supporting our young veterinarians. And then I had what's sort of called what I call a mid vet crisis, which is when you have spent quite a number of years trying to gain all your clinical knowledge and think that once you've spent a couple of years doing that, you'll be home and hose and everything will be fine. And then realizing there's just to learn and I guess sort of having a bit of a slump around that period of time too. So, yeah, ups and downs, just like life, really. But I absolutely love being a vet and I think a big part of that is learning some really important skills around how I communicate with my client and with my team as well. In those early years where it sounds like it could have been easy to just pull the plug and change career direction completely or to get away from clinical veterinary medicine. Looking back now, you would have learned skills and tactics and strategies.How did you get through that? Probably colleagues, actually,to be honest, and people who within the profession that I worked with, and university friends and colleagues that really sort of supported me through that period of time. I initially, after that initial new grade experience and went overseas and actually locombed, which in hindsight probably wasn't the wisest thing to do. It could have gone poorly. However, I ended up in a really lovely practice in the UK, where they really supported me for older, very experienced vets, and they sort of took me under their wing. I obviously looked like a stray dog that had been beaten too many times because they really did nurture me and helped me through. And I was only there sort of eight months, but, gosh, that made a difference to how I felt and my confidence and things like that. So, yeah, forever grateful for that. Team in Nottingham, you are married to a veterinarian.Yes. How easy is it for each of you and then you both, as the couple, to actually switch off from work? Yeah, that's something that we still find a challenge. And we've often worked in the same practice, too, for a long period of time. We owned our own practice and worked together and it's always gone quite well for us. It's never, you know, never really caused issues at work. I would say that the hardest bit is just what you described as that switching off and not making it all about work and trying to gain some balance there. And I think that's a constant work on. And I know from all the veterinarians I talk to, it's just a constant work on getting that balance right between work and home life, and not just the time that you spend there either, but it's more about being able to be mindful and the home life that you have. So being present with your family and your friends rather than thinking about what's happening at work, that's a journey. Right. I don't think any of us, anyone I know, has got that nailed100% of the time. It's a constant goal and it's definitely something that we need to all work on to make it sustainable. I also think that when you have a business with your spouse my husband and I both own vet staff, but he's got a day job and there are times when we need to talk about things, business things. But I am so over, I just want to switch off, whereas he's been doing and I love what I do. Yeah, I love what I do. Absolutely love what I do. He loves his day job, but then he needs to talk to me about vet stuff. I don't want to yeah, just boundaries. They're wonderful things, aren't they?Elusive. There's a couple of things I'd like to hear you talk about.You've had a scholarship,NZVA. So the NZVA companion Animal Veterinarians Branch, in conjunction with Hills Pet Nutrition, have an educate the educator scholarship that they award. I think it's a number of times per year they've got a fund and so there's an application process to apply for that to do some continuing education, and they usually try and reserve that for overseas experiences. And so I applied for that earlier in the year and was very lucky to have been awarded some partial funding for the course that I wanted to attend, which has made it possible to at least apply for the course, which was a process in itself. There's a reasonably stringent application process for the Institute for Healthcare Communication. So once I had that Educate the Educators Scholarship, I was able to then put forward an application. And very happy to say, I was accepted to attend the course in May at the University of Georgia in the US. So Educate the Educators Scholarship definitely helped me on that pathway, which is really exciting, and I'm super grateful for that. When did you realize that you wanted to do something a bit different to medicine still in the profession? I think it probably came two pathways, really. One was my midfit crisis and realizing that one of the big parts of my job stress was when clients weren't happy.So when we had disgruntled clients or things had gone wrong or I didn't communicate things appropriately and then had to go and tell a client so, for example, the estimate was wrong and had to go and tell the client was going to be more or I hadn't gone through potential complications. And then we had a potential complication, and I hadn't communicated that in the first place. So things around that communication piece really set off my stress factors.And so I was really aware of that as a part of my journey of trying to decide what I wanted to do with the rest of my career. So that was the first piece. And then the second piece was that I had a clinician who I worked quite closely with, who was an excellent veterinarian, but was really struggling to connect with clients for whatever reason. There are a whole lot of reasons for that. And I looked around for some kind of course to send them on that would help with that. And I actually couldn't find anything. This was a few years back, and I thought, well, actually, it's such an important part of what we do, and it's such an important part of how we feel about our job, and it's such an important part of how our clients feel about us that really that should be forefront.And so that sort of set me on the pathway of going, okay,so how do we help our clinicians improve these skills? So I looked at what GPS were doing and GP training. Had a number of friends that I that I mountain bike with on my once weekly mountain biking girls trip who are GPS and talked to them at length about the kind of training that they get in patient communication. Also spoke to Stuart Gordon at Massey about what was happening in the program with Massey graduates and was lucky enough to go and do some Facilitation with him. So sort of just started really reading everything I could and learning how to help clinicians who were really struggling in that field.And gosh, it made such a difference to the people that I had been helping with just my small amount of knowledge that I thought, there's got to be something here that we can roll out to scale to really improve the way our clinicians connect with their clients. And it's one of those things, isn't it?The more and more you delve into it, the more you learn and the more you find out you didn't know. And so it's been an amazingly rewarding journey, both helping people through communication piece but also just understanding what a plethora of research and information there is. South there on not only the benefits for the clinician with regards to connection around complaints and patient outcomes and things like that, but from a personal professional point of view, we all know that from a mental health perspective, really connecting with people is a really important part of well being.And so teaching people how to really connect, it makes a massive difference to their job satisfaction.You've had vet life skills up and running for a couple of years now. Tell me about that plan that really. Started as a way to be able to start to south of connect with businesses and it's very much in its infancy because I have a couple of other jobs. You've got a day job as well? Yes, yeah, I have a day job as well and I call this my side hustle, but it is probably what occupies a good portion of my thought process. So the end goal of that, or the main goal of that was always to attend the Institute for Healthcare Communications, educate a workshop or train the trainer workshop to develop a framework to then be able to offer workshops and one on one coaching and workshops for attendees, but also going into clinics and doing full team workshops as well. So that's kind of the aim of having that business is to be able to use a platform there to provide that service and really start to sort of impact individual veterinarians and veterinary nurses as well because we're doing a lot consulting and really involving our veterinary and that client facing piece as well. How are you enjoying it? I love it. Yeah, I absolutely love it. It's a challenge because it's different to being a vet, it's educating and it's figuring out what ways people learn and putting it into real life context for vets is super important. Which is part of the Institute for Healthcare Communications benefit, is that they've done a lot of the legwork around the video content so that you can teach with that as a basis.And a lot of the material I had already been using prior to the course was actually quite similar to the content for the Institute for Healthcare Communications. I sort of managed to glean a lot of that from the GP world and just my experience as a clinician and a lot of the research, I'd done it. So the content itself is quite similar. There are obviously some changes but essentially it's quite similar. But the resources that the Institute provide around that video content and that teaching content is in exercises and case studies and things are really vital, as well as the understanding of how to use experiential learning. So simulated client and coaching people or veterinarians and veterinary nurses through simulated client interaction so that they can really practice it. And that is really gold standard as far as communications training is actually practicing it, figuring out what's working well,figuring out what would be better, and being in that reflective place around learning. So that was probably the big part of it for me. Have you found since you've started that there are common themes, like you mentioned before, that for you it was thinking about some client interactions was stressful. Yeah. Is there a common theme with the type of client interactions that you're coming across? Yeah, I mean, I think adverse events are really hard for people when things don't go according to plan and planning for those conversations and how to have those conversations in a way that's empathetic and respectful, but also maintaining your professional stance and not necessarily admitting liability because there may not have been any liability. So those conversations are hard. And I think there are particularly we all tend to communicate quite well with people who are like us. It's just the way life is. We tend to recognize characteristics in people that are similar to us and we warm to them and develop rapport more quickly with them. So I think there are for a lot of people, a subset of people who they just don't warm to and find it really difficult to develop rapport with.And that varies, obviously, between individual veterinarians.But I think we can all agree that there are certainly in the veterinary world, some clients who are very more tricky to communicate with than others. And some of that may be around their intensity of their relationship with their pet and their expectations around care and things like that, too. So I think those tend to be the things that people find the hardest. Have you got if there's a listener listening right now thinking, this is me?Yeah, this is me, I don't like that whatever that type of personality is or whatever. Yeah,sure. Do you have any top level tips that somebody could implement straight away to diffuse perhaps a situation or do a reframe themselves or work on distressing themselves? Yeah, I mean, I think that both I think it's a reframe and examining your own reaction to that process and trying to figure out why that is. And this is all it's a bit of a snapshot, right?Like, you look at the diary and you see Mrs. Jones is coming in, and last time you saw her, she was really difficult and she was actually quite rude, and you think, I've got to see her again today, so having a reframe okay, so why do I feel like that?Oh, that's right. She was really unhappy last time okay, so I need to reset the way I feel about that and go in with a fresh mind. And some of that is around training and learning those techniques to take some deep breaths and engage your forebrain so that you can control that hidden brain excitement that happens in the flight, fright response. Some self awareness around that is super important. And then I think that the key for clients really is that they actually most of the time want to be listened to and heard. They want to know that we care about their pet and they want their views being respected to be respected. So I think if you can go in with a couple of reminders to yourself around having an open mind, being super curious about the problem, show some empathy. So some empathy statements and again, this is all down to practice because it has to be authentic to yourself, right? Like someone can't give you a phrase to tell you to say it and if it doesn't feel authentic to you, it just comes across as fake. So practicing what feels authentic to you with regards to empathy and empathy statements is really important and then really listening and being curious to what that client's got to say.Really try and understand what their problem is and ask as many questions as you have to, to get that right. So reflective listening is a really useful tool. So if someone, Mrs. Jones gives you a whole list of what Patsy has been doing for the last 48hours, being able to say, okay, so she's had some vomiting three times last night and there's been some diarrhea overnight as well.She's been off her food for two days and she's a bit lethargic.Have I got that right? Is there anything else that you'd like to add to that help me understand when this started? So really just trying to get to the bottom of that. And a lot of the time that interest, that curiosity and that respect that you show by being present in that consult room and really focusing on that client and on Pepsi is often all you need to do to set that rapport and connection there. And then from then on it gets a bit easier because that rapport and connection really is the key to a trust relationship. If you can develop that, then A,our job is much easier, b the client feels much more at ease and c we often get better patient outcomes as a result because we're working together.The other phrase that I often like to remember is how important relationship centered care is where we are working,the client and the patient and myself as that relationship and really working together with the client to achieve the outcome. And I use a lot of phrasing like that as well.So if I get the feeling that we've got a client who's feeling really anxious about something, I'll say, look it's my job to work with you, for us to come up with a solution that's best for Patsy. And I rely on you as Patsy's expert to help me in that regard, the same way you rely on me as the veterinary professionals to help you in that regard. So we need to really work together to get the best results.So using those kinds of phrasing and obviously,when you first know a client, first meet a client, your first interaction is quite different to how you would that interaction would play out when you've known them for 510, 1520 years as well.I've got just listening to you talk, one of my standard phrases is, Help me understand. Yes, just help me. Just help me understand. And I think that's a really big thing, isn't it, when people are disgruntled.Help me understand why this is or how this has been so hard for you and for Patsy, like, what's gone on for Petsy and you that has made this so difficult. And another one I have is when I have absolutely no idea. As an empathy statement, I can't begin to understand. I can't even imagine what that would be like. Yeah. I'm beyond words.I can't even imagine what that would be like. Yeah. And I think it's like any skill that once you figure out what feels authentic to you and really genuine,it's so much easier the more you use it to be really genuine. So I think it's a skill that really needs to be worked on, the same way your bitch based skills need to be worked on, or your lateral suture skills need to be worked on, or your abdominal ultrasound skills need to be worked on. It's so important. But of course,you're using them every day with communication and you're not only using them with your clients, although that's how that started for me. The spin off is that your communications with your team and your spouse and your children also benefit from the skills that you learn in the consult room, too.I hope you enjoyed listening to Dr Meg Irvine. You can contact her at meg Irvine Irvine at LifeSkills. Co NZ. You can also find out more at Vet LifeSkills website, which is LifeSkills. Co NZ. I will put links to this in the show notes so that you can contact Direct wherever you are listening to this episode. Tune in next week to hear more about Dr Meg's journey and the critical role good communication plays in leading your best life at home and at work.And talking of best lives, the Vet Staff podcast is dedicated to those vet clinics that prioritize their people and the professionals who aspire to work for them. I invite you to join us on this journey of empowerment and discover a world where veterinary clinics thrive by putting their people first. If you're working for a clinic you believe deserves to shine online, then I invite you to visit Vetclinicjobs.com and give your clinic a five star review to make future or current recruitment easier. If you are recruiting right now, then please visit Vetclinicjobs.com and list your job vacancy for free. This is a global website, so wherever you're listening from, you can review your clinic and or list your clinic's vacancies for free@vetclinicjobs.com.Thank you for spending the last half an hour or so of your life with Dr. Meg and me.We both appreciate your time today and look forward to you joining us again next week. This is Julie South signing off and inviting you to go out there and be the most fantabulous version of you you can be. God bless.The Vetstaff podcast is proudly powered by Vetclinicjobs.com, the new and innovative global job board reimagining Veterinary Recruitment connecting veterinary professionals with clinics that shine online. Vetclinicjobs.com is your goto resource for finding the perfect career opportunities and helping vet clinics power up their employer branding game. Visit Vetclinicjobs.com today to find vet clinics that shine online so veterinary professionals can find them.Vetclinicjobs.com it all.