Nurturing Veterinary Sustainability: the Power of Conversation - ep 142

Are you tired of dealing with client complaints and inefficient time management at your clinic? What if there was a way to boost staff morale, improve your NPS scores and increase conversions to procedures? Join us in this episode. The second of two is Dr Meg Irvine from VetLife Skills reveals the secrets to achieving these positive outcomes in your veterinary practice. Get ready for a transformation that will leave you and your team feeling empowered and fulfilled. Welcome to the Vet Staff Podcast, your go-to guide for navigating the vet recruitment scene and boosting employer brand power. Discover practical strategies for both employers and employees to enhance your personal and clinic brands. Get ready to rock the recruitment market and create an exciting workplace where everyone loves going to work. on Monday mornings, i'm your show host, julie South. This is episode 142 of the Vet Staff Podcast and the second of two with Dr Meg Irvine of VetLife Skills. If you haven't listened to the first episode, as always, i recommend you do that, because Dr Meg shares how her first job as a new veterinary grad has helped shape her future into ensuring that today's new grads are supported and mentored. Dr Meg's tool of choice and I say that in air quotes tool of choice is learning, all about good and effective communication. Dr Meg is a companion animal veterinarian and lives in the central Otago town of Wanaka in New Zealand's South Island, which is just over the Crown Range from Queenstown. We joined this conversation today where I ask Dr Meg about what results a clinic could expect if they were to put their team through effective communication training. Let's say that there's somebody listening, they are a clinic owner or they might be a practice manager or a HR manager. They've got some influence with the checkbook. What sort of things could, what outcomes, what positive outcomes could they expect to see by putting their team through some comms training?

I think there's. Some of them are measurable and some of them are measurable. So the measurable ones typically tend to be less client complaints, so better NPS scores and review scores, less client seeking second opinions at other practices. Time management is a really big part of it because one of the things that I work through in the workshops is as a consultation structure which can really help with time management and some of that's around eliciting an agenda with the client, so agreeing on what you're going to cover in that consult so that you're not trying to bite off more than you can chew. Really important for the client. That brings the list in with five things they want covered in your 15 minute consult. So time management is definitely measurable. I think the things that are harder to measure are sorry when we talk about things that you can measure. The other thing I think is conversion to procedures, because there's trust that develops and the education piece around educating clients while we do dental, recommend dental procedures, while we recommend certain surgical procedures, is much easier to convert those into actual procedures. So I think that piece will increase. What's less measurable is employee satisfaction. Obviously there's employee satisfaction surveys and things like that, but I think really it's around people feeling successful in their job, feeling happy to walk into any console and any client and think of it as a challenge to deal with and to communicate with a client that's typically been difficult, by using their newfound skills and really putting those into practice and then reflecting on what works and what doesn't, so that job satisfaction, i think, is a part of it. That's less measurable.

So a practice manager, HI manager, clinic owner can look if they haven't. This is life according to Julie. Go back to your whatever data you can get from your PMS and see how long your 15 minutes, how often 15 minutes going to 20 minutes.

Yeah, your receptionists usually are the best people to tell you about that, because they're the people that are eyeballing the people that are waiting in the waiting room, and so your reception team have a really good idea who doesn't stick to time and that's a really big deal for practice owners. So, yeah, the other key to that receptionists really, or the vets, will know that they're running over time too. It's the amount of overtime that they do because they end up writing notes at the end of the day because they haven't got them done in clinic time. Mostly, you're aware when you're running over time because it's stressful, right, like I find. particularly I'm on the type A personality like to be on time. If I'm not on time, then that really stresses me out and that slows me down further. So I think most of us are aware when we're out time management as long as it should be.

What would be involved in a workshop, and is a workshop required, or is it a one-on-one consult? How would it work?

Yeah, so it's a variety. I guess if you've got issues with customer service generally amongst the vet team and a sort of a negativity about clients and the culture, then potentially a whole team workshop is worth doing, and that can be done during hours or out of hours And it involves the contents of the theory around communication. So what are some of the tools that we can use? And then some sort of case-based discussions and then coming up with a team-based approach to how we're going to improve at the way we interact with our clients And everyone on the team agreeing that this is at such and such veterinary hospitals, this is how we treat our clients, this is the way we communicate. These are the things we're going to work on, and how are we going to be accountable to that? How are we going to measure whether that is successful or not? Because it's all very well and good doing a workshop if you can't implement and then prove to the people that are paid for the workshop that it's been worthwhile exercise. And, like I said, some of those things are measurable and some of them are not so measurable. So I think where you've got a whole team that's really struggling with that culture piece, sometimes actually just talking about and coming up with a plan about how we want to communicate is it should be team-based. And then I think, where we've got individuals who are getting poor MP scores or client reviews And really struggling with that and don't have any sort of self-awareness or are aware but don't know how to change that, then someone on one coaching can be really helpful in that regard And I think that's often best done. There's two ways of doing that. You can do that, obviously, just through discussion and talking to the veterinarian about some tools that they can use and getting them to go away and implement them, and then talking about that later. One thing that works really well and certainly the GP world they use it quite a lot is video taping consultations, which I know sounds really daunting, but it is. Again, it's like role play with simulated clients. It's gold standard And if you really want to improve things and you're really genuine about improving your communication and consultation skills, then videoing. A little iPhone, stand in the corner of your room And, mrs Jones, i hope you don't mind, how do you feel about me videoing this? because I'm doing some continuing education and communications training. Get the client's permission and off you go, and you do forget that they're there after a period of time. The hard bit is actually going back and watching them, but you do that in conjunction with your coach. Okay, so what went on here? How did that go? What could we have done differently there? You see the way Mrs Jones looked a little bit uneasy there. You could tell she was moving from foot to foot and she stared up in the ceiling. She clasped her hands. What do you think that was telling you? So working through that with the individual veterinarian? So it's really about tailoring approach that works for the clinician. Do you go?

through different personality styles or types.

A lot of the time they have done that. So part of that free discussion is a piece around self-awareness and the kinds of behaviors that are inate to the individual veterinarian And what might be a barrier to having open communication with clients of all sorts you know all types because it's really easy, like I said before, it's really easy to communicate with people that we're in the right. It's the challenges when we come across people who we're not automatically drawn to or can connect with easily.

Do you have a tip for diffusing situations?

Yeah, well, there's quite a few and they are, to be fair, they're very situation based. I think once a client gets into that hind brain fright and flight situation, there is very little benefit in pursuing a sensible conversation about a procedure or a situation. Really, the biggest thing that we can do at that point is have allow both parties, so the veterinarian and the client, to move into the situation where their forebrain can overcome those over the over, those flight fright responses. So I think you know saying a lot. I can see that this has been incredibly distressing to you and that your primary goal is to get Patsy. Well, can we just take five minutes just to both gather our thoughts and then let's work together and have a conversation so that we can achieve the outcome that we both want for Patsy. So I think having a wee break and just allowing that to settle is really important. It might not always be appropriate, which is you know why I said it depends a little bit, but I think recognising that once someone pushes over into that flight fright response which happens quite commonly in veterinary medicine because of the intensity of the feelings towards people's pets and that feeling of really the needing to be advocate, you know that real pressure around responsibility as an owner That it can really bring up a lot of those feelings and, of course, who knows what that client's been through in the past? They all bring their own previous experience in veterinary clinics and previous life experience and triggers into the consult room as well. So I think, recognising when the clients are in that phase and knowing leading with, i want to help, i want to work together with you so that whole relationship-centered care thing. But I think we both just need to take five and then let's regroup and we'll come up with a plan.

Mick, tell me please the Institute for Healthcare Communications. We've talked about what you did there, like what, how you got there, but what is it and what's so special about it? Why? them, you would have had a, you would have had a whole sure range of courses to choose from, so why them?

Well, yes and no, that's probably the only veterinary based intensive experiential learning And when I say experiential learning I'm talking about actually role play, simulated client. It's probably the only week long sort of full immersion course at it sort of university levels that are available And they should go back to university and do a professional skills course, which is not possible, so to go back to vet school. So that was the main reason for that. There's some really big names in the veterinary communications sphere that sort of started off the healthcare, the veterinary faculty. So just a bit of background. The Institute for Healthcare Communications was set up for human medical practitioners to improve their communication skills, enhance client patient outcomes and improve clinician experience as well, and that was started in 1987. And to be part of that faculty you'd need to have done the educators course, and so they've got something like 1500 people who facilitated across the veterinary faculty And the veterinary faculty was started in 2004. And the aim of that is really to educate people so that they can go out and educate others in communication skills. So the course is quite small. So there were only 11 veterinarians on the course And where I was quite different to everyone else who was there, except for one other was that they were mostly university lecturers and specialists who were learning to teach their residents and interns to communicate with their students and how to have those sort of coaching communications around how they interact with clients. There was one other veterinarian who owns a large practice in the US who was there as well, and so it was her and I that were in real life general practice And we did ask lots of questions about how to teach that in general practice. And I think you know we probably have a harder road to go down, a path to go down because our people that we to educate don't necessarily, you know, aren't necessarily there to or don't necessarily know that their communication skills could do with some work, and I would challenge anyone to say that they couldn't improve the way they communicate with clients, because I think I said this to you in the preamble it was something I felt like I was pretty good at until I learn a few new things and it's just been life changing. You know the way that I have learned to develop my skills at connecting, developing rapport, summarizing issues, reflective listening, empathy, statement, providing a safety net and a handover to the client and then just rolling that all into a structure that gives me a really timely way of performing a consult, and so I think that being a consult has been really life changing. So, yes, so I think the small number of people at the course was fantastic because we basically had one facilitated between two and three and four people And really hands on two of them One was a specialist small animal surgeon, one was a human psychiatrist, one was a human physician assistant and the other one was a small animal and a tunist. So a range of facilitators from both the medical and veterinary profession just helping us, coaching us through how to coach people in their communication style and skills.

And do you have to be a veterinarian to be a participant, to be a student?

Yes, you had to have a couple of letters of recommendation to be able to participate. You had to prove that you were able to share that information and that you had a process with how you were going to share that information. You had to have been a veterinarian for five years to be able to do that. You had to have a process of paying for the license fee, which is not insignificant.

So they wanted to know all of that before you get accepted into the process, the importance in learning key communication, the skills of that in your success as a veterinarian. Tell me about that, please.

Well, there's a heap of research around it because you know and recently it's been well researched That patient outcomes and client satisfactions vastly better when the clients are seeing. Veterinarians have been communication trained, so some really good papers out there to prove that. But certainly my anecdotal personal experience from both myself and those that I have trained in communication skills, is that their time management tends to get a lot better. They have a lot less client complaints, they tend to hone in on the real problem that the client perceives much quicker because they know the questions to us And their job satisfaction is just so much higher because they feel successful and proficient in the way they're performing their consultations. And, let's be honest, for a GP veterinarian, consulting is such a massive part of what we do, and so developing some skills that really make you a successful consulting veterinarian is so important to how we perceive our job. And it's exhausting, right Like consulting can be really exhausting Especially for an introvert, absolutely, and even for an introvert or an introverted extrovert, at the end of the day the last thing we want to do is pick up the phone and talk to a friend. It's just so we can talk to anyone. So I don't think it takes away how difficult consulting is in that it is, it can be quite depleting, but I think what it teaches you is to really be successful at that skill. And also I guess I work quite a lot with people on practicing mindful consultations, which I know might sound a little bit new age but super important from a wellness point of view to really and from a client perception point of view and satisfaction point of view, if you can focus only on what's going on in that consult room and not think about the cat that you admitted two consults ago that you're not sure what's going on with it and have the nursing team been able to get bloods off it or has it needed some new pension to come at down first? Are you going to get those bloods by the time? you told the client you'd bring them back at two o'clock So that monkey mind that goes on in your head while you're consulting can really detract from the client experience, because they know that you're not thinking about them fully, but also it really just tracks from your own experience and really getting into the flow of consults and really focusing on what's happening in that room is really good for your own wellness as well. So we do a lot on that piece too.

How can veterinarians improve their communication skills? Great Tess.

Yeah. So learning the theory is super important. And then it's figuring out where your gaps are, and then it's plugging those gaps with the skills that you've learned, and then it's practicing them, and then it's reflecting on what's working and it's reflecting on what you could do better next time. And practice, practice, practice, practice practice.

And then remembering to use the strategy when everything turns to custard.

Yeah, especially, i think you know those second opinion consults, those and I don't like using the term difficult client, but it's true, the difficult client consults those are the ones we're really having. A framework to really follow along is really important. I think cue cards is super important, like having one thing that you work on that week. So this week it might be reflective listening. I'm going to really concentrate on practicing reflective listening. So next week it might be I'm going to work on empathy statements. I'm going to really show that I care about this client and their patient and try and really put myself in their shoes and understand. The week after that might be I'm going to work really hard on eliciting an agenda and signposting with a client. So that is so. Mrs Jones, you've got lots of things that you that you've noticed about Patsy, that you, you know that all are really important. What do you think is the thing that's upsetting her the most at the moment that we should focus on today? It's her skin, okay. So look, the other things that you've brought up are really important too, but I don't and I don't want to rush through them and not give them the time that they need and we really need to concentrate on them, but I can't do it all in this appointment. So how about today we talk about her skin and then we'll put her on with a plan together about how to treat that, and then we'll get you back later in the week and I can assess that response and have a look at some of these other things that you've brought to my attention. Does that sound okay with you? Are you happy with that? So just really, you know, eliciting agenda, so picking a skill basically from the theory and I guess the skill sets and the toolbox, and practicing that until it's embedded behaviour, simple but not easy. Yeah, simple but not easy, And it's the same as all the skills that we do as a veterinarian and right. Everything we do is simple but not easy, until it becomes easy because we've practiced it so much, and that is the key. How do people get hold of you, meg? The best way is through my website and email.

The website is wwwthetlifeskillscom and my email is megrevinethetlifeskillsconz, and that's all on the website And I will put links in the show notes for this episode Wonderful.

I guess I'd just probably like to round off by saying that in this day and age of it being really hard to be a vet, i think there's so many good things about our profession and there's so much to be gained by really working on it being sustainable for you. And some of that is around the wellness piece, around boundaries and time management and things like that, but some of it is just to connect with people and really remembering, to remember all the cool things that we do every day.

With Vetstaff. We've just launched a Vetstaff now has a sister, and the sister is Vet Clinic Jobs. The purpose of Vet Clinic Jobs is to enable good employers to shine online, so it's a mix of a traditional job board on steroids with a clinic business directory where the clinics can talk about or they've got a business profile and part of that profile is to. They have the opportunity to put the different programs and courses and things that they do over and above the regular staff. So it's all about polishing the halo of the clinics so that the clinic, the person and the planet can be sustainable.

Yeah, and I think there's so much, there's so many good things in our profession. It often gets bogged down rightly so, because we've had some tough times right and we've got some big challenges, but we also, in our core, are a bunch of really amazing people wanting to do and, by and large, almost always wanting to do the right thing and doing the right thing And I think if we can focus on all the good that we do and the cool stuff we do and the amazing people we meet and the amazing pets that we serve us, then we're winning.

Today we've explored the secrets to achieving positive outcomes in your veterinary practice, including overcoming client complaints, improving time management and boosting NPS scores and conversions to procedures through effective communication skills. With what Dr Meg shared today, you've now got some sharper communication skills to add to your toolbox to empower your team and enhance the overall satisfaction of both your staff and your clients. Get in touch with Dr Meg to find out how you can implement these strategies fully and achieve the transformations she's talked about at your clinic. You can get her. You can email her at megovine irvinne at vetlifeskillsconz. That's megurvine at vetlifeskillsconz. You can find out more about vetlife skills at her website, wwwvetlifeskillsconz. I will put links to dr meg's email address and her website on the show notes wherever you're listening to this episode today. Tune in next week where I switch the communication equation around by mixing it into the vet clinic employer branding and recruitment marketing mix. We'll look at the importance of creating positive job applicant experiences so you can achieve veterinary professional sustainability through positive recruitment experiences at your clinic. And talking of positive employer experiences, the vet staff podcast is dedicated to those vet clinics that prioritize their people and professionals who aspire to work for them. I invite you to join us on this journey of empowerment and discover a world where veterinary clinics thrive by putting their people first. If you're working for a clinic you believe deserves to shine online, then I invite you to visit vetclinicjobscom and give your clinic a five star review to make future or current recruitment easier. If you are recruiting right now, then please visit vetclinicjobscom and list your job vacancy for free. This is a global website, so wherever you're listening from, you can review your clinic and or list your clinic's vacancies for free at vetclinicjobscom. Thank you for spending the last half an hour or so of your life with Dr Meg and me. We both appreciate your time today. I look forward to spending time with you again next week at the Vet Staff podcast. This is Julie South signing off and inviting you to go out there and be the most fantabulous version of you you can be. God bless. The Vet Staff podcast is proudly powered by vetclinicjobscom, the new and innovative global job board reimagining veterinary recruitment, connecting veterinary professionals with clinics that shine online. Vetclinicjobscom is your go-to resource for finding the perfect career opportunities and helping vetclinics power up their employer branding game. Visit vetclinicjobscom today to find vet clinics that shine online so veterinary professionals can find them.

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