Unleashing the Potential of Vet Nurses in New Zealand with Jade Pengelly - Tales of a Vet Nurse - pt 2

Julie South [00:00:04]:

Have you ever wondered what the difference is between how vet nurses are trained in the UK versus New Zealand? Or how the skills and responsibilities are similar between the UK and New Zealand for vet nurses? And more importantly, how can vet nurses advance their careers and gain the recognition they deserve in New Zealand? Stay tuned, because in this, the second of two episodes with Vet nurse and author of Tales Of A Vet Nurse, Jade Pengelly, you're listening to Pause, Claws and Wet Noses, the Vet podcast celebrating all creatures great and small, and they're fantabulous professionals who look after them all. Pause Claws, Wet Noses is powered by Vetstaff, new Zealand's only specialist recruitment agency dedicated to helping veterinary professionals find jobs they're excited about going to on Monday mornings. Vetstaff co NZ. Welcome to episode one, three, four. I'm your show host, Julie South. Today we pick up from last week where Jade and I chat about her vision to change how vet nurses in New Zealand are perceived, regarded and even treated. Jade shares how she thinks the veterinary industry in New Zealand is in some ways behind the UK, and how she felt reverse culture shock when she returned to Godzone. She openly shares her controversial views about what she thinks needs to change in clinic in New Zealand for vet nurses to reach their full potential, and the how and the why she thinks the degree of professionalism and education is only going to get better and better in New Zealand. If you haven't listened to last week's episode where Jade shares why she wrote Tales Of A Vet Nurse, I recommend you do that because it gives you context for today. We join the conversation here today where Jade starts talking about her vision for kiwi vet nurses to be seen by.

Julie South [00:02:14]:

The public in a different light.

Jade Pengelly [00:02:20]:

I think it leaves me with a lot of hope and excitement, I guess, now that I have written the book, it is about promoting it to the right people to ensure that people within the veterinary profession, but also the public, actually get to read it so that they can learn about vet nursing a little bit more.

Julie South [00:02:42]:

There's a lot more to veterinary nursing than puppy kisses and kitten cuddles each day. How do you think the public sees it now after reading your book?

Julie South [00:02:55]:

Have you had feedback?

Jade Pengelly [00:02:56]:

I have had feedback. A lot of surprise, actually, from the public, which I think is really exciting because it means that the goal that I set out to do has been achieved, or that my suspicion that the public didn't know a lot about vet nursing has been confirmed. So good feedback. People saying, I didn't realize all the skills that vet nurses had, or I didn't know what vet nurses actually did. And a lot of people saying that if they were, for example, to drop their pet off at the vet clinic for a day, they can actually picture what is happening throughout the day now. I think for some people, they feel like they drop their pet off and then there's this blank space and then they pick them up. I think it can be really reassuring for people actually to know what is happening with their pet out the back. I think all of us have met those clients who presume the worst or during lockdown. We're getting really upset if we were taking their pets away and they had to stay at the front door because they assumed that we might do something bad to them. And it's really sad that we do have a small proportion of clients that think that way. So hopefully it would help those people to be reassured and know that actually everyone in the vet clinic does the very best by their animal and there's a lot of care and consideration that goes into every decision that's made by a vet or a vet nurse.

Julie South [00:04:13]:

I think you've helped highlight the professionalism that being a vet nurse requires, as well as the education that goes with the profession.

Jade Pengelly [00:04:28]:

Yes. And you know, New Zealand is the veterinary nursing profession is in the midst of a change in New Zealand as well. At the moment, we are moving towards new models all the time, different types of education being offered. Now we have a vet nursing degree in New Zealand. Clinical coaching is coming into New Zealand for the first time. So I think that degree of professionalism and education is only going to get better and better in New Zealand. Hopefully. The book does highlight, as you say, what is already there for vet nurses to go through to achieve those skills.

Julie South [00:05:06]:

When you were overseas, was the UK the only country you worked in overseas?

Jade Pengelly [00:05:14]:

Yes, it's the only country I've worked in. Vet practices overseas. The UK was so eye opening for me and such an incredible learning experience. I really think that the veterinary industry in New Zealand is still quite behind the UK. And I definitely felt that reverse culture shock when I came back to New Zealand from the UK. But the experience I was able to gain from UK nurses is just still to this day. I think my colleagues probably I drive them mental because they say, oh, my goodness, in the UK they did this and it was so cool. In the UK, I learned this. It was a very cool time.

Julie South [00:05:54]:

What do you think needs to change for kiwi nurses to be at that level?

Jade Pengelly [00:06:02]:

This is something that's probably a little bit controversial, but I would actually flip it and say it is actually the vets that need to change a little bit for vet nurses in New Zealand to achieve their full potential. And I know not everyone may agree with me on this, but I really found that the culture in veterinary practices in the UK, vets really saw nurses as their equal and not someone who was necessarily at a different level to them. They had a very involved role in their patients care. And I still feel like in New Zealand it can be a little bit like, I'm the vet and you're the nurse, so I'm going to tell you what's going to happen and you need to listen to me and not have your own opinion. And that is not everywhere, for sure, but it is something I still see crop up, especially as someone who is locumbed. And I feel like until we can have an attitude change, where a culture becomes, everyone is on the same level, everyone has something to, I guess, contribute to patient care, then I don't really see how we can have nurses that will work on the same level as what they do in the UK. I think our education in New Zealand is pretty top notch, actually, in terms of what we teach our nurses. And we do have a lot of educators in New Zealand who have worked overseas and they've seen how those other models work. But I think we just have a really bad case of tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand, and until we can have that culture shift in a whole practice level, I do fear that we are holding our vet nurses back a little bit.

Julie South [00:07:38]:

Are you saying that? Because I actually thought the qualifications were far more comprehensive in the UK compared to New Zealand. I thought that's where there was a shortfall in learning or a difference, a differential in learning outcomes. Are you saying that education wise, learning outcome wise, we're on a par here, but vet nurses aren't allowed, aren't and I say listeners, I say that in air quotes, they're not given the support, the responsibility in clinic to demonstrate and utilize those skills. Is that what you're saying?

Jade Pengelly [00:08:25]:

I think from my personal experience, that's what I've witnessed. I have taught veterinary nursing in New Zealand and I feel like our educators actually have a very similar level of knowledge. The learning outcomes are very similar to the UK. I will say the difference in education that I've noted between New Zealand and the UK is that the UK works very heavily on an apprentice based system where vet practices, take on a student vet nurse for four days a week and then are released to college or university for one day a week. That is very heavily how vet nurses get into nursing in the UK. There is also diploma in university as well, but I feel like because they have clinical coaches and it's very practical based, they are able to gain their practical skills probably a little bit faster than in New Zealand. But I do think that the quality of our education is just as high in New Zealand. It's really just about ensuring that, as you say, nurses are afforded that chance to get in and utilize their clinical skills, because in the UK, they really really utilize nurses and we're still seeing a shift towards that in New Zealand. I think we have a way to go. For example, when I was locoming, I didn't see many vet practices utilizing nurse led clinics. And I feel like in the UK that was one of the first roles I was thrown into. Very heavily utilized over there and practices charge for their nurses to be doing clinics and they charge good money for it too. So I think to me that just goes to show how much they do recognize and appreciate their vet nurses. And that's not to say we're not doing it in New Zealand because there are practices that are. But I would like to see more come on board.

Julie South [00:10:14]:

If when more came on board that would allow vets to do only the work that vets are legally allowed to do, which will help with stress levels and work levels and caseloads and everything else, absolutely.

Jade Pengelly [00:10:30]:

You've hit the nail on the head. It will allow the vets to really focus on what they need to do instead of trying to do their job, and a vet nurse's job as well. And we do have a vet shortage in New Zealand that's super well known, so anything we can do to relieve that pressure off the vets is going to be a good thing. I'm very lucky at the moment to work in a practice where nurses utilize all of their skills and I hear daily from the vets about how much they appreciate that they have nurses that allow them to just focus on the roles that they need to do. And they feel like they would have so much less time if they didn't have the nurses working at their full capacity.

Julie South [00:11:12]:

For a nurse that is listening to you now, thinking to themselves, I want what Jade's got, what would you suggest that they do? What could be the first steps to have more professional satisfaction and development and perhaps autonomy?

Jade Pengelly [00:11:36]:

I think it's really important to have a discussion with your manager about what it is you are wanting to achieve in your professional life, because it might be that your manager isn't aware of what you're wanting to achieve. Probably really important to have those conversations with the vets as well and see where they're at. It might be that they would love it if you could pick up some more responsibility and if you feel like you need some more coaching to get there, then see if your practice can make that happen. I do feel like, unfortunately, within this profession, there does need to be a level of if you can't get what you need in your vet practice, you do sometimes need to look elsewhere. And we are seeing that a lot in vet nurses now, I think, who are moving when they aren't satisfied in their jobs and why we have recruitment companies to help place those nurses in somewhere where they feel valued. I think life's too short to sit around and hope that you're going to be able to use your clinical skills. You really need to make that push. And if it's not a practice that's going to support you, then you need to find somewhere that will, because there are many vet practices in New Zealand that will utilize your skills.

Julie South [00:12:46]:

What about for the nurses who want to demonstrate to the vet that they can be trusted? Because when I've been speaking to vets, we're talking with vets that want to change jobs. And one of the questions that we ask them is what's their relationship with their nurses? Like, do they utilize their nurses or do they consider themselves to be a vet only vet? And those that are vet only vets, or they see the nurses as being cage cleaners. How do you suggest that nurses, what steps, what little things can nurses do to demonstrate to those vets who have a level of distrust that they can be trusted? What procedures, what functions in clinic could they start with?

Jade Pengelly [00:13:45]:

I think it's really important in these situations and I've been in this situation myself, as you say, you have to demonstrate that the vet can trust you because that's the only way those types of personalities will ever let you do more. If they don't trust you, they just simply won't. And I do feel like that's on them. But unfortunately, in the professional world, even if it's on them, you still have to do things yourself, right, to make life easier. So maybe it is as simple as saying, hey, can I put this IV catheter in? Can I draw bloods from this animal? If they say no in the moment, don't fight it, but have a discussion with them and ask them why and explain to them, I have learned these skills when I have done my qualification. I want job satisfaction. I want to be able to do this from time to time. Will you show me the technique that you like to allow you to be able to trust me, but just make it clear that it is something that gives you job satisfaction and it's why you want to do it. And start off with the small things. Don't go in saying I want to intubate every animal. For a general anesthetic, you're going to get big kickback. It needs to be small things. I generally find that vets are pretty good about taking blood and putting in an IV catheter because it's something that they can watch the entire time. But yeah, any way you can demonstrate trust? I also feel like a lot of vets learn to respect me when they are aware of how much ongoing CPD I'm always doing, how much research I'm always doing. If they are having a conversation and I am able to contribute to that conversation, then they can look at me and go, okay, you do know what you're talking about. You have done your research into that. Okay, I'll give you a bit of respect and a bit of trust. There can be quite hard if you're trying to jump into a conversation and you don't actually know what they're talking about. I can find that that can make them even more distrusting. But I do think it's on vets a little bit as well to realize that if they want their job to be easier, they do need to be able to trust their nurses. And if there is a certain nurse that they trust, ask that nurse to do some training with the vet nurses that you don't trust.

Julie South [00:15:54]:

I noticed one of the things I picked up in your book was you referenced that research and ongoing and continuing professional development was important to you.

Julie South [00:16:06]:

How do you drop into a conversation.

Julie South [00:16:11]:

With a distrustful in air quotes or a lacking in trust vet that you know what you're talking about? For a nurse that's out there listening, she knows this. She's not quite sure or he's not quite sure. They're not quite sure how to just drop it into the conversation without being a no at all.

Jade Pengelly [00:16:35]:

It can be something as simple as being like, oh yeah, that's super interesting that you're talking about that, because I saw a really cool webinar last week or read a really good article last week that talks about this and then demonstrate what it is that you know. I always find that's the easiest way to drop it into conversation. Or if you have nursed a patient in the past with a condition that they're talking about and could be something as simple as, oh yeah, I remember when that cat with chronic kidney disease came in and it wasn't eating. And then one of the vets decided to place a feeding tube and I was able to utilize my tube feeding knowledge and it was really cool to see that that cat then perked up a couple of days later and we were able to send them home. Relating back to maybe a patient that you've nursed before or even something like, I find it really interesting what you're talking about. I would love to have the chance to learn more about that. Can you show me? When I have sat down with veterinary leaders who talk about how to become a better leader, it's always about building a bond and building trust with those people that maybe you don't want to because they are the hardest personalities for you to deal with. But man, when you get someone on side with you, your professional life can just move in leaps and bounds and you will find that you will be able to do so much more clinically than you maybe have done before. And it can be really hard to suck it up and hold your tongue when you're working with someone that maybe you don't agree with or get along with. But if you can build a rapport with that person. Man you are so the bigger person in that situation. But also, I think you'll be quite surprised at how far you can get as a vet nurse. And to this day, I work with people that in a personal role, I probably wouldn't choose to be friends with them, but I can build a rapport with anyone now.

Julie South [00:18:27]:

Jade.

Julie South [00:18:28]:

We're in May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month. Mental health and wellness in the veterinary profession is important. It's important in any profession, right? Any employer has a duty of care to look after their employees. There's also a lot of talk in the media, on social media, Facebook, Instagram groups about how clients should be nice to nurses and vets. What's your take on that? Your thoughts?

Jade Pengelly [00:19:07]:

I think it's great that vet practices are starting to be more transparent with their clients and say to them, the way that you act can affect our mental health. I think it's so important that the public know that. I would say sometimes I feel like maybe vet practices, particularly ones that maybe I've worked at as a locan, whether the mental health of the staff isn't great, maybe too much emphasis is being put on mental health relating to clients only. And that I think it's just really important as a profession that we remember that especially people who are working in management or who own a business, that they have a duty of care to their employees as well around mental health. And there are really simple things that we can do to ensure that vets and nurses mental health are looked after. It shouldn't be entirely on the employee or entirely on the client. I think for mental health to improve in the veterinary profession, we all really need to look at it as a collective effort. As a manager myself, if someone is saying to me, I'm really struggling today and I can send them home early, then do it. Don't get hung up on. No. You need to work X amount of hours this week. If your staff are consistently working overtime and it's 80% of the time, you need to look at getting more staff members. It's not just about them sucking it up and working overtime. We really need more employers to be looking at, like, what can we do to solve these issues for our employees and make sure that we are taking care of them? Let them take their holiday when they want to take their holiday. They have a right to that. Why are people dictating what time of the year that their vets can have time off? They deserve to have time off when they ask for it. And it's our duty as managers and employers to make sure that if we need to get a locum in to cover them, then so be it. Let them have a life that allows them to have good mental health, as well as educating your clients, of course, on how to treat your veterinary professionals, but let's try and look at it as more of a collective effort.

Julie South [00:21:20]:

How about those clinics that just cannot find locums?

Jade Pengelly [00:21:24]:

Maybe ask yourself, is there a reason why you can't find a locum? Is it because you have a bad reputation? Are you not paying enough? Is it because you are just in a demographic area that's not popular? Of course you can't help that, but I have generally found, especially as someone who's locum myself, if you treat your locums well, you'll get a reputation of being a good place to locum and people will be knocking at your door.

Julie South [00:21:51]:

Thank you for tuning in and spending the last half an hour or so with Jade and I. I hope you found at least one of these ideas helpful, either for you personally or for you to implement into your clinic to help your team get a greater sense of both job satisfaction and to increase your bottom line through vet nurse consults. Have you checked out the Revive Your Drive two minute videos designed to help veterinary employees and employers jujup their mental health? During Mental Health Awareness Month of May, a new Revive Your Drive video was uploaded, a different mental health topic each day, so that means 31 in all in the series. There are tips there to help on managing conflict in the workplace, prioritizing workloads and how to achieve work life balance and blend. Check out Vetclinicjobs.com resources or find the link on the Show Notes page where you're listening to this podcast.

Julie South [00:23:00]:

Now.

Julie South [00:23:01]:

This is Julie South signing off and inviting you to go out there and be the most fantabulous version of you you can be.

Julie South [00:23:12]:

Kia Kaha, ka kite ano, God bless  

Julie South [00:23:18]:

Paws Claws Wet Noses is sponsored by VetStaff. If you've never heard of VetStaff, it's New Zealand's only full service recruitment agency, 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector. VetStaff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide from Cape Reinga to the Bluff and everywhere in between. As well as helping Kiwis, VetStaff also helps overseas qualified veterinarians find work in Aotearoa New Zealand vetstaff.co.nz